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Post by Justlee on Feb 17, 2012 20:27:59 GMT -5
Didn't Kip Winger just try the same thing? Wonder how that's going... Haven't heard of that, but if he is begging fans to pay for it, I think it's pathetic.
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Post by Hey Man on Feb 17, 2012 20:36:48 GMT -5
I don't know why these types of discussions always turn into "what right do I have to tell a band what to do". It's not about that at all - it's a completely legitimate debate from a business and financial standpoint. Vixen are not even going to come close to getting the $35,000 and in the end - they will be embarrassed that they couldn't even crack 500 bucks from the legion of Vixen fans worldwide. I mean even asking for $35,000 in this economy mixed with the fact that no one really cared about you in your prime is just fucking stupid. Van Halen are financially viable with an album and tour in this day and age, so someone making the same argument because they don't like Van Halen would be idiotic. But yes, if you are band from the 80's that is playing to 20 people now in a shack, you shouldn't be making new albums from a financial standpoint. Especially if you want people to invest in you to make that album. Lugnut is right - bands like this should concentrate on writing 1 or 2 really great songs and if those deliver, then maybe there will be some hype or interest for a new album. But if you throw an album together like many of these bands do and they don't even sell 500 copies, it's just pointless for their career and actually does more damage to their legacy over anything positive. Like Peter Criss and One For All. Really...who cares? If no one wants it then no one will buy it. What's the big fucking mystery with questions like this? THere's a lot of shit out there I don't think is viable and there are always 10,000 fucktards or better who lap it up. That twat Minaj and her scatterbrained horror opera will probably sell 5 times what Van Halen sells...and it's utter crap. Van Halen's contract will dry up and wither long before Minaj, but if it's about quality then the reverse will happen. But it won't. It has NOTHING to do with quality. Quality ensures NOTHING. Van Halen album smokes. Whitesnake album smokes. If it sold 7 copies and came with a corned beef sandwich coupon, it'd still smoke...but now it would also be an abject failure. Relative success is the only thing that determines if there will be a next go 'round, not quality. I wish it were that simple. If Vixen's album sucks BUT somehow has some fluke relative success, there will be another one...guaranteed. When did I say it had to do with quality? Like I said before, if Coverdale said that it wasn't financially viable for him to make a new album - I would totally understand his position despite the fact that I would want him to make that new album. There is no mystery to questions like this either - it's a completely valid and legitimate argument from a business and financial aspect. Now Vixen can make the greatest album in history if they got their $35,000 - but it won't sell more than 500 copies if they are lucky and for that reason, they shouldn't be making new albums per the demand and financially speaking. But they can do whatever they want to do with their own money which they don't have and the knowledge that they won't sell dick - I am just pointing out that an album is pointless for them, because it will die the second the it hits the marketplace. So why make the album is a valid question, because I think they are delusional and that they think it's still the 80's, like there is some sort of demand for new Vixen material. It's like they are trying to pretend that they are Heart and that they want to make some sort of comeback album. The problem with your argument is that most 80's bands that do make new albums - don't release a quality product and typically throw something together that is nothing more than a step above demo's and hope that someone buys it. Whitesnake and Journey can make quality albums, because they also have Frontiers backing them. In terms of an investment for them - Whitesnake and Journey make money for them. As someone who has had to go to investors to raise money for films - I think it's irresponsible for any band to ask others to provide money for an album - when they know that even before a single song has been recorded, it won't make a fucking dime. Like someone else said - Vixen will probably pay themselves with that money, record something for 5,000 bucks and dump it on their website to sell. Now any album would be a bad investment these days from any band, but a band like Vixen would just be throwing money away. Music is no different than a TV show or movie. I find that people have no problem bashing movies or TV shows or actors and directors in the same context as what we are talking about here, but if it's a band - that is somehow sacred and if we don't like it - just don't listen. I am sorry, but I think many of these 80's bands are delusional and can't make money doing anything else, so they hold on to the idea that maybe the glory days will come back again if they could just make another album. I think many of these bands need to be told the harsh truth - it's over. If Vixen can't make an album through their own means or through a label that wants to sign them, they shouldn't be making new albums.
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Post by Hey Man on Feb 17, 2012 20:45:16 GMT -5
Really...who cares? If no one wants it then no one will buy it. What's the big fucking mystery with questions like this? THere's a lot of shit out there I don't think is viable and there are always 10,000 fucktards or better who lap it up. That twat Minaj and her scatterbrained horror opera will probably sell 5 times what Van Halen sells...and it's utter crap. Van Halen's contract will dry up and wither long before Minaj, but if it's about quality then the reverse will happen. But it won't. It has NOTHING to do with quality. Quality ensures NOTHING. Van Halen album smokes. Whitesnake album smokes. If it sold 7 copies and came with a corned beef sandwich coupon, it'd still smoke...but now it would also be an abject failure. Relative success is the only thing that determines if there will be a next go 'round, not quality. I wish it were that simple. If Vixen's album sucks BUT somehow has some fluke relative success, there will be another one...guaranteed. Yeah, but Whitesnake and Van Halen aren't Vixen or Bulletboyz or L.A. Guns or such, even if their profile is significantly lower than it used to be. I'd say for those bands (and hell, KISS too) it does make sense to keep focusing on albums because they've still got enough of an audience for it. Vixen, et al don't. I agree that relative success is the main factor, but it's utterly ridiculous for these G-list bands to believe they're going to pull it off... unless they really go all-out and put absolutely all of their focus (and maybe money) on one amazing fluke single instead of just churning out yet another cookie-cutter album. (And as for Minaj, I could be wrong, but I don't think we'll be hearing too much more from her. I think she was nominated for a ton of Grammys but didn't win a single one, and her performance and new songs are being pretty much universally shat on everywhere. Like I said on the thread about her on the FAQ, her bag of tricks is too limited. She can be pretty great on the right track, in small doses, but she's got nowhere to go from here. She stood out at first solely because of her unique delivery, but now we've heard all of that and it's not impressive anymore, which might not be a problem if she had something unique to say or something different in her music... but she doesn't.) Totally agree here.
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Post by Ford GT on Feb 17, 2012 23:13:48 GMT -5
The topic of this thread is if what I was told was true, THE reason why Blue Oyster Cult won't do another album. There's no money to be made from a new album. Was also told from the same "inside source" that the band had to finance a portion (if not all) of the costs for the catalog remasters. Reason why the whole catalog wasn't and won't be done. Too bad they didn't do Fire Of Unknown Origin.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2012 2:52:01 GMT -5
I have no issue with bands trying different ways to make albums or get their music out there. I don't think Vixen are going to succeed in getting $35,000, though.
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Post by R&ROVER on Feb 18, 2012 13:06:10 GMT -5
Well Vixen was arguably never any good to begin with...even at their very best. They probably shouldn't have gotten a record contract back in the day, but they did. Only because of that (and some single success being a color of the week artist then) are they getting a renewed chance now, mostly just banking on the high school-era nostalgia. But again, I don't have to buy it and I don't care. Clearly they're asking for help to fund it. If they don't get that funding, it probably won't be made. If they DO get the funding then clearly enough fans care to at least cover the costs. If it's overfunded and Vixen pockets it, who cares? Artists are out there to make money. Shouldn't cost $1500 to meet Kiss either, but fucking IDIOTS pay that shit right and left. I never will, but someone will. It's not fair, but there it is.
I agree with Just Lee. They probably still enjoy making music and this is how it's going to happen for them or not. Why begrudge them the opportunity. They blow. They've always blown. Fans of their music blow. But if they want to sit around in a circle and blow each other, I hope they knock themselves out. Them making a record isn't draining anyone else a chance....just their fans, who either will or won't be willing to fund it.
Lots of things out there that shouldn't be made in all forms of entertainment and Ghost Rider 2 comes to mind. Another shitty comic film made by a desperate and shitty actor. I never saw the first, but didn't think it did well enough to warrant another one, but boom, there it is. I guess it has its fans. I'm not one. Don't get to choose what gets made, as it turns out. Difference here is that INDEED some other film is NOT getting made so that GR2 can get green-lit. Not so with Vixen. Them releasing an album is laughable, but it hurts no one and it'll make them and a small gaggle of hangers-on happy.
If their fans are happily willing to overfund an album they make on the cheap, then fine. Some people question whether or not Sonic Boom was worth $12 too. Most seem to think it wasn't. I'd have paid $25 for a new Kiss album sound un-heard at that point. I didn't care what the record cost versus what it cost to make. I was just happy there was a new Kiss album. If it makes Vixen fans happy to get a new record, they won't care either. If there's not enough fans to make that happen, then their "ploy" will fail. Simple.
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