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Post by Hey Man on Feb 21, 2012 18:04:13 GMT -5
Compard to other hard rock album in 71 to 74 - it is pretty limp. There are good songs there, but the production kills the album. If Ted Templeman or Eddie Kramer produced the first album - the first album would have been so much better and actually be considered a classic slab of hard rock. It is considered a classic slab of hard rock and not just by Kiss fans. You not liking it doesn't change that fact. If it was considered a classic essentially slab of hard rock - it would have sold more than dick as the album would have found a new generation to buy it in hindsight. The Montrose debut is considered classic, has sold much more than the first KISS album and destroys it in ever way - it still sells. Don't get me wrong - I like the KISS debut, but RARO is so much better.
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Post by Hey Man on Feb 21, 2012 18:05:53 GMT -5
Absolutely not - not even close. In fact most KISS fans say they prefer the Alive versions over the studio versions - because well they are more alive so to speak and not as bland as on the debut. I'm judging it on the material, not the production values. Sometimes the production values help, sometimes they don't. Production-wise, I hate the debut. But material-wise? It's fantastic. Or maybe because it's KISS? That was their first album before the merchandise and all the bullshit. If it was an epic album - people would give them credit for that, like many other bands that released now classic debut albums in the 70's.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2012 18:10:35 GMT -5
It is considered a classic slab of hard rock and not just by Kiss fans. You not liking it doesn't change that fact. If it was considered a classic essentially slab of hard rock - it would have sold more than dick as the album would have found a new generation to buy it in hindsight. The Montrose debut is considered classic, has sold much more than the first KISS album and destroys it in ever way - it still sells. Don't get me wrong - I like the KISS debut, but RARO is so much better. So essentially it's about continuing sales. WEll, I guess Kiss don't have to worry about not being given the respect for the music since both Alive! and Destroyer continue to sell and are both regularly listed in magazines as essential albums. Then again, I thought we were talking about Kiss in the 80's.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2012 18:11:20 GMT -5
I'm judging it on the material, not the production values. Sometimes the production values help, sometimes they don't. Production-wise, I hate the debut. But material-wise? It's fantastic. Or maybe because it's KISS? That was their first album before the merchandise and all the bullshit. If it was an epic album - people would give them credit for that, like many other bands that released now classic debut albums in the 70's. Not if their opinions are now clouded by what came after.
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Post by Hey Man on Feb 21, 2012 18:23:42 GMT -5
That was their first album before the merchandise and all the bullshit. If it was an epic album - people would give them credit for that, like many other bands that released now classic debut albums in the 70's. Not if their opinions are now clouded by what came after. So are you saying that if KISS had Zeppelin's discography - the makeup and the merchandise would have made people say that those albums are shit? That KISS' Zoso album is just terrible?
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Post by Anomacunt the Excellent on Feb 21, 2012 18:23:52 GMT -5
That was their first album before the merchandise and all the bullshit. If it was an epic album - people would give them credit for that, like many other bands that released now classic debut albums in the 70's. Not if their opinions are now clouded by what came after. Exactly.
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Post by Hey Man on Feb 21, 2012 18:25:42 GMT -5
Not if their opinions are now clouded by what came after. Exactly. Bullshit. It's an excuse made by KISS fans for why the rest of the world can't see what they see or why they don't think KISS is as fucking awesome as they do.
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Post by Justlee on Feb 21, 2012 18:47:59 GMT -5
Bullshit. It's an excuse made by KISS fans for why the rest of the world can't see what they see or why they don't think KISS is as fucking awesome as they do. No need for excuses from KISS fans. People like what they like, plain and simple. Speaking of Zoso...I don't think that is the best Zeppelin album at all. I like some KISS albums better. But, again, it's all about opinions. There were lots of people who thought KISS was better than Led Zeppelin in 77 or 78. So what? Doesn't mean shit. It's all subjective.
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Post by Hey Man on Feb 21, 2012 18:51:48 GMT -5
Bullshit. It's an excuse made by KISS fans for why the rest of the world can't see what they see or why they don't think KISS is as fucking awesome as they do. No need for excuses from KISS fans. People like what they like, plain and simple. Speaking of Zoso...I don't think that is the best Zeppelin album at all. I like some KISS albums better. But, again, it's all about opinions. There were lots of people who thought KISS was better than Led Zeppelin in 77 or 78. So what? Doesn't mean shit. It's all subjective. Sorry, but KISS fans have always been full of excuses.
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Post by dute on Feb 21, 2012 18:55:09 GMT -5
Who cares is right....who cares about their critics?? Not me. I know what I enjoy, couldn't give a fuck about critics, or even some liberal guy that has a message board that somehow thinks Sammy Hagar and David Coverdale are the best musicians ever.... Come on Lee - we both know that KISS have never released that hard rock album that everybody had to own, like so many other hard rock bands have. People used to make jokes that Back In Black or Zoso came with the house your parents bought. Hell as bad as they were - Quiet Riot made more of a impact over KISS in many ways just with Metal Health and everyone buying that. So are you basically saying that a debut album from a band has to sell well and be popular in order to be considered good?
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Post by Anomacunt the Excellent on Feb 21, 2012 18:56:04 GMT -5
Bullshit. It's an excuse made by KISS fans for why the rest of the world can't see what they see or why they don't think KISS is as fucking awesome as they do. Well your opinion is that Back In Black is a great album is because it was received a heap of praise. Sonic Boom is the most well-received album by critics from KISS in a LONG time, does this mean Sonic Boom is one of the best KISS albums ever? The critics think so so it must be!
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Post by Justlee on Feb 21, 2012 18:58:22 GMT -5
Bullshit. It's an excuse made by KISS fans for why the rest of the world can't see what they see or why they don't think KISS is as fucking awesome as they do. Well your opinion is that Back In Black is a great album is because it was received a heap of praise. Sonic Boom is the most well-received album by critics from KISS in a LONG time, does this mean Sonic Boom is one of the best KISS albums ever? The critics think so so it must be! Zing.... ;D
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2012 19:06:30 GMT -5
Not if their opinions are now clouded by what came after. So are you saying that if KISS had Zeppelin's discography - the makeup and the merchandise would have made people say that those albums are shit? That KISS' Zoso album is just terrible? If Kiss had Zeppelin's discography, they'd be Zeppeliin. Kiss' discography is exactly what I want it to be. Kiss wrote some great songs in the 70's. Many just asa good as any other band of the time. They also had great success at the time with many of those songs and albums. Why aren't they thought of in the same breath as Back in Black or Led Zep 4? No idea, but it may have something to do with many people thinking Kiss are all about merchandise and money and not about music. You can deny that all you want, but there could be some truth in it. And there may be some truth in it. Truthfully, I rally don't give a shit if anyone else sees or hears what I do. As long as I'm happy with it, the rest is cannon fodder for boards like this.
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Post by Hey Man on Feb 21, 2012 19:06:52 GMT -5
Bullshit. It's an excuse made by KISS fans for why the rest of the world can't see what they see or why they don't think KISS is as fucking awesome as they do. Well your opinion is that Back In Black is a great album is because it was received a heap of praise. Sonic Boom is the most well-received album by critics from KISS in a LONG time, does this mean Sonic Boom is one of the best KISS albums ever? The critics think so so it must be! One of the best KISS albums ever isn't saying much - since it's KISS were are talking about. I mean Psycho Circus came before it - so there was nowhere to go but up.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2012 19:07:30 GMT -5
No need for excuses from KISS fans. People like what they like, plain and simple. Speaking of Zoso...I don't think that is the best Zeppelin album at all. I like some KISS albums better. But, again, it's all about opinions. There were lots of people who thought KISS was better than Led Zeppelin in 77 or 78. So what? Doesn't mean shit. It's all subjective. Sorry, but KISS fans have always been full of excuses. No, they just don't always agree with you. I know that hurts sometimes.
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Post by Justlee on Feb 21, 2012 19:09:15 GMT -5
Sorry, but KISS fans have always been full of excuses. No, they just don't always agree with you. I know that hurts sometimes. This.
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Post by Hey Man on Feb 21, 2012 19:10:19 GMT -5
Sorry, but KISS fans have always been full of excuses. No, they just don't always agree with you. I know that hurts sometimes. No - KISS fans have been making excuses forever for everything. We both know this. It has nothing to do with me or my opinion.
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Post by Anomacunt the Excellent on Feb 21, 2012 19:10:46 GMT -5
Well your opinion is that Back In Black is a great album is because it was received a heap of praise. Sonic Boom is the most well-received album by critics from KISS in a LONG time, does this mean Sonic Boom is one of the best KISS albums ever? The critics think so so it must be! One of the best KISS albums ever isn't saying much - since it's KISS were are talking about. I mean Psycho Circus came before it - so there was nowhere to go but up. So then my logic was correct then? I want you to say it, Sonic Boom is one of the greatest discs in the entire catalogue.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2012 19:10:50 GMT -5
Hey Man....you talk about Kiss fans as though you aren't one.
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Post by Justlee on Feb 21, 2012 19:12:32 GMT -5
Hey Man....you talk about Kiss fans as though you aren't one. The truth is coming out like a creeping old river dog...
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2012 19:13:15 GMT -5
No, they just don't always agree with you. I know that hurts sometimes. No - KISS fans have been making excuses forever for everything. We both know this. It has nothing to do with me or my opinion. Some have. A small minority I'd say. Most are just getting on with enjoying the band. Me saying that critics and those that want to change the catalogue may be blinded by makeup isn't excusing anything Kiss have done. It's offering an explanation to the topic. I really couldn't care less what other people think of the band. nothing to be excused as far as I'm concerned.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2012 19:13:18 GMT -5
Hey Man....you talk about Kiss fans as though you aren't one. The truth is coming out like a creeping old river dog... That old Mad Hatter is just a still water river away....
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Post by Anomacunt the Excellent on Feb 21, 2012 19:13:24 GMT -5
Hey Man....you talk about Kiss fans as though you aren't one. The truth is creeping out like an creeping old river dog... ...give me a sec. ... Hey Man! Quit your... ... Fuck, I ain't got shit.
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Post by Justlee on Feb 21, 2012 19:13:42 GMT -5
The truth is coming out like a creeping old river dog... That old Mad Hatter is just a still water river away.... ;D ;D
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Post by Hey Man on Feb 21, 2012 19:17:27 GMT -5
Don't make me bring out Sweet Lady Luck.
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Post by Justlee on Feb 21, 2012 19:21:23 GMT -5
Don't make me bring out Sweet Lady Luck. That bitch was lame....
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Post by Hey Man on Feb 21, 2012 19:22:09 GMT -5
Don't make me bring out Sweet Lady Luck. That bitch was lame.... TJ liked her.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2012 19:23:57 GMT -5
That bitch was lame.... TJ liked her. LOL!!! Nice. I liked her too, or at least tried too, but I always knew it was you.
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Post by Justlee on Feb 21, 2012 19:24:17 GMT -5
That bitch was lame.... TJ liked her. ;D ;D Now that wouldn't be surprising. I think he could be a closet serial killer.....
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Post by Hey Man on Feb 21, 2012 19:28:48 GMT -5
;D ;D Now that wouldn't be surprising. I think he could be a closet serial killer..... I am not kidding - he sent me a PM and wanted to trade pictures. I seemed really nice he said.
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