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Post by Hey Man on Oct 13, 2023 17:02:01 GMT -5
 OK, look - many people think I just hate Tommy Thayer because I have been very critical of him. I don't hate the guy, he seems cool and he is professional/reliable. I don't really care about such things in a rock and roll band - I would prefer a much better guitarist, who was maybe a little difficult and gave push back. More often than not, that kind of dynamic has proven to beneficial creatively. Thayer is not a great guitarist. He wasn't great with Black N Blue despite liking some songs. He wasn't great with his follow up bands Harlow or Shake The Faith, before he realized that he couldn't make a living as a guitarist and no B or C level band wanted to hire him. So he did odd jobs, started working for KISS behind the scenes and then was just handed the gig of pretending to Ace Frehley vs the traditional way of doing things with auditioning the top guitarists you can find and then picking the best fit for the band. Gene and Paul wanted a yes man and they got one. Now sure people will bring up on the FAQ that Tommy is much better than Ace now yadda yadda, but children can copy Eddie Van Halen too as Tommy does with Ace and it is understandable with Ace's age and health decline that he wouldn't be as good as he was in the past - new studio album pending as I wouldn't be surprised if it is very good with the help he is getting on it. What actually matters though is what a person has created. Ace has created some great stuff and was a founding member of KISS. Thayer hasn't created anything of real worth. Having said that, I don't blame Thayer for taking on this gig, but his legacy will be the guy who pretended to be Ace Frehley and he will be ultimately forgotten. I would have much preferred he was allowed to do his own thing with KISS with his own character and allowed to bring his own ideas/style to the table not unlike Vinnie, Mark and Bruce. I wouldn't want a guitarist I love like Richie Kotzen doing what Tommy is doing either and that is the point here - I would be critical of Kotzen if for the last 20 years, he was pretending to be Ace. This was never just a Tommy thing. Good for Tommy that he has made money and can enjoy the rest of his life as he wants to - he does deserve that and I do wish him the best, but the idea that he is above criticism or we should be praising him simply because he has been a yes man for 20+ years and was pretending to be someone else is just ridiculous. He never really made his own mark in KISS and that is unfortunate that Paul and Gene put him in that position. He was copying someone else even to the point of writing similar songs and lifting solos. I just have never heard any fans praise someone for how professional and reliable they are as their top quality until Thayer came along. |
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Post by Joma on Oct 13, 2023 17:26:52 GMT -5
I hate Tommy. I think he sucks and looks like a butt plug. I don't blame him for recruiting Gene and Paul to join his and Singer's tribute band...that's on G&P, but I don't like them any better for it.
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Post by Hey Man on Oct 13, 2023 17:33:39 GMT -5
I hate Tommy. I think he sucks and looks like a butt plug. I don't blame him for recruiting Gene and Paul to join his and Singer's tribute band...that's on G&P, but I don't like them any better for it. You are harsh. What did Tommy ever do to you? You might be the first Freewheeler ban in 2023. |
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Post by kissoff on Oct 13, 2023 17:35:16 GMT -5
OK, look - many people think I just hate Tommy Thayer because I have been very critical of him. I don't hate the guy, he seems cool and he is professional/reliable. I don't really care about such things in a rock and roll band - I would prefer a much better guitarist, who was maybe a little difficult and gave push back. More often than not, that kind of dynamic has proven to beneficial creatively. Thayer is not a great guitarist. He wasn't great with Black N Blue despite liking some songs. He wasn't great with his follow up bands Harlow or Shake The Faith, before he realized that he couldn't make a living as a guitarist and no B or C level band wanted to hire him. So he did odd jobs, started working for KISS behind the scenes and then was just handed the gig of pretending to Ace Frehley vs the traditional way of doing things with auditioning the top guitarists you can find and then picking the best fit for the band. Gene and Paul wanted a yes man and they got one. Now sure people will bring up on the FAQ that Tommy is much better than Ace now yadda yadda, but children can copy Eddie Van Halen too as Tommy does with Ace and it is understandable with Ace's age and health decline that he wouldn't be as good as he was in the past - new studio album pending as I wouldn't be surprised if it is very good with the help he is getting on it. What actually matters though is what a person has created. Ace has created some great stuff and was a founding member of KISS. Thayer hasn't created anything of real worth. Having said that, I don't blame Thayer for taking on this gig, but his legacy will be the guy who pretended to be Ace Frehley and he will be ultimately forgotten. I would have much preferred he was allowed to do his own thing with KISS with his own character and allowed to bring his own ideas/style to the table not unlike Vinnie, Mark and Bruce. I wouldn't want a guitarist I love like Richie Kotzen doing what Tommy is doing either and that is the point here - I would be critical of Kotzen if for the last 20 years, he was pretending to be Ace. This was never just a Tommy thing. Good for Tommy that he has made money and can enjoy the rest of his life as he wants to - he does deserve that and I do wish him the best, but the idea that he is above criticism or we should be praising him simply because he has been a yes man for 20+ years and was pretending to be someone else is just ridiculous. H goe never really made his own mark in KISS and that is unfortunate that Paul and Gene put him in that position. He was copying someone else even to the point of writing similar songs and lifting solos. I just have never heard any fans praise someone for how professional and reliable they are as their top quality until Thayer came along. I always thought you expressed yourself very clearly on the FAQ when it came to TT & never picked up any hate or otherwise. instead I felt you brought people back down to Earth about the matter. |
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Post by kissoff on Oct 13, 2023 17:42:18 GMT -5
I hate Tommy. I think he sucks and looks like a butt plug. I don't blame him for recruiting Gene and Paul to join his and Singer's tribute band...that's on G&P, but I don't like them any better for it. OMFG That's the Ultimate Thread title 'Does Tommy look like a butt plug?🤣🤣 |
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Post by Hey Man on Oct 13, 2023 17:51:21 GMT -5
I always thought you expressed yourself very clearly on the FAQ when it came to TT & never picked up any hate or otherwise. instead I felt you brought people back down to Earth about the matter. Thanks man. I was simply being objective about Tommy and the truth hurts. I can't believe that I got banned over a Tommy comment that was actually misunderstood - didn't think that would be the thing to take me out, but I have no hard feelings when it comes to Julian. |
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Post by kissoff on Oct 13, 2023 18:00:30 GMT -5
I always thought you expressed yourself very clearly on the FAQ when it came to TT & never picked up any hate or otherwise. instead I felt you brought people back down to Earth about the matter. Thanks man. I was simply being objective about Tommy and the truth hurts. I can't believe that I got banned over a Tommy comment that was actually misunderstood - didn't think that would be the thing to take me out, but I have no hard feelings when it comes to Julian. Shit that's nuthin Julian banned me for tellin your boytoy MTS he's an old fart and enjoys selling girl scout cookies door to door which is undeniable cuz he turned around and whined to Julian about it fast as he could!! |
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Post by Joma on Oct 13, 2023 18:03:39 GMT -5
Thanks man. I was simply being objective about Tommy and the truth hurts. I can't believe that I got banned over a Tommy comment that was actually misunderstood - didn't think that would be the thing to take me out, but I have no hard feelings when it comes to Julian. Shit that's nuthin Julian banned me for tellin your boytoy MTS he's an old fart and enjoys selling girl scout cookies door to door which is undeniable cuz he turned around and whined to Julian about it fast as he could!! I knew you had second account vibes! Undeniable? TKE!!! Busted!!! Should invite TKE here.... |
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Post by kissoff on Oct 13, 2023 18:21:42 GMT -5
Shit that's nuthin Julian banned me for tellin your boytoy MTS he's an old fart and enjoys selling girl scout cookies door to door which is undeniable cuz he turned around and whined to Julian about it fast as he could!! I knew you had second account vibes! Undeniable? TKE!!! Busted!!! Should invite TKE here.... MTS was total embarrassment when in it came to outting anybody about anything. Even Julian told him to sit the fuck down and he tried to spin that to his advantage too. Much Too Stupid is more accurate as others have stated!! |
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Post by Hey Man on Oct 13, 2023 18:28:06 GMT -5
Thanks man. I was simply being objective about Tommy and the truth hurts. I can't believe that I got banned over a Tommy comment that was actually misunderstood - didn't think that would be the thing to take me out, but I have no hard feelings when it comes to Julian. Shit that's nuthin Julian banned me for tellin your boytoy MTS he's an old fart and enjoys selling girl scout cookies door to door which is undeniable cuz he turned around and whined to Julian about it fast as he could!! Yes, some bans are completely understandable. Even I understand some of those. Yours isn't one of them. A ban is supposed to an absolute crossing of the line that no one can really argue against. |
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Post by Hey Man on Oct 15, 2023 12:04:09 GMT -5
I don't know why, but I really find it amusing when people say things like: Tommy is staying in five star hotels and eating the finest food in existence as he flies in private planes.
Tommy doesn't strike me as a guy enjoying the finer things in life or to put it another way, he isn't snobby and demanding the highest quality steak and lobsters after each show. He is probably eating the kind of food that the little people eat as well. A burger chain he likes, etc. He isn't having chefs making him fancy dishes.
I just find it interesting that this sort of thing is brought up to defend Tommy.
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Post by Hey Man on Oct 15, 2023 19:48:42 GMT -5
www.kissfaq.com/forum24/viewtopic.php?p=3759833#p3759833That's the point John - it doesn't happen for a reason. Bands typically audition many guitarists and then choose the best out of the bunch. They don't make the band gopher the new guitarist simply out of convenience. I would be worried if Tommy Thayer started a trend of bands doing this. Answered. Done.
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Post by Hey Man on Jan 3, 2024 14:42:26 GMT -5
This shit cracks me up. I would be willing to bet money Tommy didn't have scores of beautiful women throwing themselves at him. It is funny how often the dining in fine restaurants and staying at fancy hotels is brought up on the FAQ to defend Tommy too. Sure he is boring as fuck on the guitar and pretended to be Ace - but he is professional, reliable and has gotten to eat at top restaurants and sleep in nice hotel beds. What a legacy. www.kissfaq.com/forum24/viewtopic.php?p=3805165#p3805165 |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2024 16:54:14 GMT -5
He's done his job as he was told to do. He can't do anymore.
I like him. He's a great player too. He's just not as good as Bruce.
He was part of Kiss from around '88 too if you want to get technical. Hes earnt his place.
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Post by Joma on Jan 3, 2024 17:31:19 GMT -5
He's done his job as he was told to do. He can't do anymore. I like him. He's a great player too. He's just not as good as Bruce. He was part of Kiss from around '88 too if you want to get technical. Hes earnt his place. The Cold Gin thing? That's where is all started! (Yeah, I know you're talking HITS....but what fun is that?) |
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Post by kissoff on Jan 3, 2024 18:32:20 GMT -5
He's done his job as he was told to do. He can't do anymore. I like him. He's a great player too. He's just not as good as Bruce. He was part of Kiss from around '88 too if you want to get technical. Hes earnt his place. The Cold Gin thing? That's where is all started! (Yeah, I know you're talking HITS....but what fun is that?) As you've mentioned, Betrayed is lotsa fun. |
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Post by Joma on Jan 3, 2024 18:37:31 GMT -5
The Cold Gin thing? That's where is all started! (Yeah, I know you're talking HITS....but what fun is that?) As you've mentioned, Betrayed is lotsa fun. Worst song on the album... Street Giveth is much better if you want to give Thayer credit... |
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Post by kissoff on Jan 3, 2024 18:47:25 GMT -5
As you've mentioned, Betrayed is lotsa fun. Worst song on the album... Street Giveth is much better if you want to give Thayer credit... Love that one too. |
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Post by battra on Jan 4, 2024 12:58:38 GMT -5
I cannot bring myself to have any strong feelings regarding Tommy Thayer in 2024.
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Post by tatersalad on Jan 4, 2024 14:19:22 GMT -5
Tommy Thayer is the leader of the KISS Army when you think about it.
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Post by MikeyB on Jan 4, 2024 14:22:11 GMT -5
I cannot bring myself to have any strong feelings regarding Tommy Thayer in 2024. Very well stated. |
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Post by Hey Man on Jan 4, 2024 14:31:20 GMT -5
Well he is finished now. No real reason to think of him ever again really.
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Post by Joma on Jan 4, 2024 14:39:19 GMT -5
Only if you buy that Kold Gin is truly done...not holding my breath. But all the same, Thayer is pretty insignificant either way.
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Post by Steve on Jan 4, 2024 15:02:18 GMT -5
He was a guy doing a job, and doing it more reliably than the drug fucked human train wreck he replaced. No hate for Tommy whatsoever, but no real enthusiasm either. I wish, oh how I wish, KISS had brought back Bruce, dropped the nostalgia trip and made a few more records while Paul could still sing. That would make up, pun intended, for the marathon of disappointment that was the reunion era.
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Post by Hey Man on Jan 4, 2024 15:15:32 GMT -5
He was a guy doing a job, and doing it more reliably than the drug fucked human train wreck he replaced. No hate for Tommy whatsoever, but no real enthusiasm either. I wish, oh how I wish, KISS had brought back Bruce, dropped the nostalgia trip and made a few more records while Paul could still sing. That would make up, pun intended, for the marathon of disappointment that was the reunion era. I suspect if Eric Carr was still alive and in the band, but had drug and alcohol issues that impacted his abilities from time to time - you might be a bit more forgiving to him if Paul and Gene were looking to replace him and have someone else wear the Fox makeup if they were going to bring back that character because they couldn't use Peter's. |
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Post by kissoff on Jan 4, 2024 16:49:45 GMT -5
He was a guy doing a job, and doing it more reliably than the drug fucked human train wreck he replaced. No hate for Tommy whatsoever, but no real enthusiasm either. I wish, oh how I wish, KISS had brought back Bruce, dropped the nostalgia trip and made a few more records while Paul could still sing. That would make up, pun intended, for the marathon of disappointment that was the reunion era. I suspect if Eric Carr was still alive and in the band, but had drug and alcohol issues that impacted his abilities from time to time - you might be a bit more forgiving to him if Paul and Gene were looking to replace him and have someone else wear the Fox makeup if they were going to bring back that character because they couldn't use Peter's. Can't recall where I heard this but I think before he got sick Carr did have bit of an alcohol problem. |
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Post by Margo Leadbetter on Jan 4, 2024 23:20:44 GMT -5
Eric’s problem was massive imposter syndrome. Mentally he was always still that broke stove repair guy. His bandmate/s also burnt to death at one of his shows in that club fire, that’ll fuck someone up as well.
You can imagine the sort of shit Paul gave him. In his autobiography he makes a point of detailing over three or four pages all the stupid pranks he would pull on him like telling him the wrong French words at a restaurant in France etc. He’s a drummer from Queens, you expect him to know shit like that?
Also funny that Paul spends a third of his book talking about being teased about his ear when he was a kid, yet talks about how Eric had short chubby legs in the Lick It Up video, Mark St John was goofy-looking and Vinnie’s hair made him look like the Gerber baby.
That last one is quite funny.
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Post by Joma on Jan 19, 2024 21:26:32 GMT -5
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Post by Hey Man on Jan 19, 2024 21:34:11 GMT -5
LOL. I would have respected him more. |
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Post by Hey Man on Apr 25, 2024 11:10:38 GMT -5
This thread is just laughable with the Kold Gin Army posts. Just endless excuses to very valid points brought up by Vandelay, Red and others. They will just accept anything that Paul and Gene feed them. www.kissfaq.com/forum24/viewtopic.php?t=161528Let's recap a couple of points: Like the lip syncing - other people pretending to be Ace and Peter was a line too far for KISS fans and they wouldn't support it. Until KISS did it and many folded by taking an opposite stance of what they said prior - they lowered their standards and said take my money!!! Yes, Tommy is a nice guy and reliable - whoo hoo, but he has the personality and charisma of a Tide Pod and is a completely generic guitarist. This is a really important factor that the Kold Gin crowd don't seem to get. Had Thayer been an exciting guitarist with a speck of star quality - this would have gone a long way with KISS fans accepting someone else in Ace's makeup. No one is giving shit to Doug Aldrich or Richie Faulkner if they were in KISS instead of Tommy, but Paul and Gene didn't have auditions to find the best guitarist - they handed the job to the behind the scenes monkey who wasn't able to make a living as a guitarist. This actually matters. I personally don't give a fuck how nice a guy is in a rock band or that they are professional and do as they are told. I can let it slide that they may be a bit difficult to deal with, if they are elevating the band with what they bring to the band. Truth be told, many great bands didn't get along and this was actually a good thing creatively. The idea of wanting yes men in your band is not. It kills creativity, because you are just not going to get any push back and that sort of situation doesn't produce great music. Butting heads a bit does. I have nothing against Tommy personally and good for him for taking advantage of the opportunity given to him, but this idea that we should just accept him because he is a nice guy and professional is ridiculous. Again, if he brought other things to the table - then that would be one thing, but he doesn't at all. So he is ultimately just going to be viewed as a boring yes man - who isn't a very good guitarist or songwriter. This is the exact reason why Eric Singer gets more of a pass than Tommy - because sure he has some past history with KISS in the unmasked era, but also because he is a fantastic drummer. Fans can't really ask for more than someone like Singer in their favorite band. Thayer? You can spit and hit a better guitarist. That is really the bottom line. Had Thayer been a killer guitarist with personality - these discussions about Thayer wouldn't exist. Instead we had a sleep inducing guitarist in KISS. I was not a fan of Kulick when he first joined the band and would have been happy if he was also replaced after a couple of albums. That was until Revenge when Ezrin pushed him and I was able to hear what he could really do with KISS from Revenge to Carnival and even Union. I would have been fine if Bruce was in KISS for the last 20 years wearing Ace's makeup. I would prefer of course that Bruce and Eric had their own characters, but at least Tommy would be in his proper place - being the gofer for KISS and not their lead guitarist. |
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