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Post by Hey Man on Sept 21, 2011 0:15:30 GMT -5
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2011 10:11:26 GMT -5
It's frighteningly incompetent to create legislation without first fact checking the information that you are using as an excuse to railroad through basing your legislation on.
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Post by Justlee on Oct 3, 2011 16:58:05 GMT -5
Why is it a bad thing to drug test the unemployed? I mean aren't you guys on the left for government involvement??.......  Besides, I have to be drug tested to get a job. I am sure the amount we would save by not paying unemployment would pay for the testing in no time. |
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Post by R&ROVER on Oct 4, 2011 9:04:26 GMT -5
Why is it a bad thing to drug test the unemployed? Because the country is broke and there's a lot better things we can do with our money than piss it away on something like this maybe? Agree. Aren't conservatives against more spending? Oh yeah, except for when they think it's a good idea. Conservatives are the Gene Simmons of waffling and conflicting ideologies. And where are the stats to show that the majority of unemployed people are abusing the privlege or are junkies? What's me losing my job have to do with drug testing? What's next, having grandma take a piss test so that she can continue getting here SS check? Maybe we should be tested for drugs to see if we still qualify to receive the mail..! |
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Post by Justlee on Oct 4, 2011 10:07:31 GMT -5
Why is it a bad thing to drug test the unemployed? Because the country is broke and there's a lot better things we can do with our money than piss it away on something like this maybe? So you don't think we would save money on the back end?? I think the cost of drug testing would be more than offset by the amount of unemployment we would save by those who fail....and maybe, just maybe it would be incentive for some to find work. But of course, the liberals in power don't want them to find work because they wouldn't be able to keep said power. The liberals have used people on welfare for years. Keeping them down. Generations of families still on welfare with no end in sight. Yea, the program works..... |
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Post by R&ROVER on Oct 4, 2011 10:40:03 GMT -5
I love that conservatives are supposedly for lifting up people who are down and are willing to spend money to test them to make sure they're not back-handing the system, but when it comes to doing essential things like keeping them healthy, they just need to tow the line, get off their asses, etc. Conservatives aren't so much interested in lifting anyone up, they just want to make sure no one is buggering things up...and those are two different things.
If we had a healthy population -- and largely we're one of the unhealthiest civilized societies on Earth compared to others (evil shit poisoning our food, obesity, diabetes, heart disease, general physical laziness) -- we'd have a stronger work force and, therefore, a stronger tax paying contingent. People look at taxation to provide health care as the evil Socialism and some look at it as an investment in the health of the nation and its workforce.
I've gone great stretches of time without health care. It's a freakin' stressful thing, to have to decide whether or not you're going to go to the doctor when you know you need to OR pay your power bill. I've been there. Guess what happens? The power bill gets paid. People put off going to see their doctor, sometimes even WITH insurance because of a co-pay they can't afford that month...or meds they know they'll need that are thru the freakin' roof expensive because the pharmaceutical industry is a racket, just like private health insurance is also a racket.
What's so damn evil about everyone sharing the burden of making sure that NO ONE goes without an essential such as care for their health...? This isn't promising a Mercedes Benz to everyone, but health care that they don't have to worry about; but you wouldn't know that to listen to some people. The healthier we get, the more people work...the more they work, the more they pay taxes to fund it (and other things, like our for SHIT roads, bridges, dams, etc). It's a self-perpetuating solution.
But no, I can't be asked to pay taxes to pay for the health of someone I don't know, care about, can't trust to be as hard working as I am, etc. Can you hear yourselves? That's a real shit way to treat your fellow man, your neighbor, you co-worker. Imagine needing help at the most dire time for your ailing kid and everyone looks at you and says, "Sorry, fucker, you just should've worked harder, saved more, and gone out for pizza less often." How comforting is that for you in a dire moment? And yet that's what we're telling people. Because it's not OUR dire moment too, we just don't give a collective fuck all because "I don't know that person, why should I care?"
That comes around. It's a terrible and immoral thing. And if you happen to believe in Jesus as well, it's something you'll be judged for too....because taking care of the needy was a bit of a big deal to him. He's not going to share your self-satisfying "I am the self-sufficient man" bullshit. Yeah, God helps those who help themselves, but that doesn't mean ignoring everyone else doing worse than you. Maybe people are trying to help themselves, but to you (general you here...no one specific) that's just not enough and so they're lazy in your eyes because you try and you succeed. They don't, so fuck them.
Shameful shit happening. Call it Socialism...label it whatever the fuck you want if that makes you feel like you're distinguishing between the values of America and what opposes them, but to ME that kind of thing is about helping people LIVE. Fundamental shit like survival. If you don't think we owe that to one another for the betterment of the nation with which you feel so much pride, you're in for a rude awakening when you yourself need it. And WE are in for an even bigger surprise the more we kick the weak to the curb and make them do dog and pony shows to prove they're worth the little help they're getting already...
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Post by Justlee on Oct 4, 2011 11:03:45 GMT -5
I love that conservatives are supposedly for lifting up people who are down and are willing to spend money to test them to make sure they're not back-handing the system, but when it comes to doing essential things like keeping them healthy, they just need to tow the line, get off their asses, etc. Conservatives aren't so much interested in lifting anyone up, they just want to make sure no one is buggering things up...and those are two different things. If we had a healthy population -- and largely we're one of the unhealthiest civilized societies on Earth compared to others (evil shit poisoning our food, obesity, diabetes, heart disease, general physical laziness) -- we'd have a stronger work force and, therefore, a stronger tax paying contingent. People look at taxation to provide health care as the evil Socialism and some look at it as an investment in the health of the nation and its workforce. I've gone great stretches of time without health care. It's a freakin' stressful thing, to have to decide whether or not you're going to go to the doctor when you know you need to OR pay your power bill. I've been there. Guess what happens? The power bill gets paid. People put off going to see their doctor, sometimes even WITH insurance because of a co-pay they can't afford that month...or meds they know they'll need that are thru the freakin' roof expensive because the pharmaceutical industry is a racket, just like private health insurance is also a racket. What's so damn evil about everyone sharing the burden of making sure that NO ONE goes without an essential such as care for their health...? This isn't promising a Mercedes Benz to everyone, but health care that they don't have to worry about; but you wouldn't know that to listen to some people. The healthier we get, the more people work...the more they work, the more they pay taxes to fund it (and other things, like our for SHIT roads, bridges, dams, etc). It's a self-perpetuating solution. But no, I can't be asked to pay taxes to pay for the health of someone I don't know, care about, can't trust to be as hard working as I am, etc. Can you hear yourselves? That's a real shit way to treat your fellow man, your neighbor, you co-worker. Imagine needing help at the most dire time for your ailing kid and everyone looks at you and says, "Sorry, fucker, you just should've worked harder, saved more, and gone out for pizza less often." How comforting is that for you in a dire moment? And yet that's what we're telling people. Because it's not OUR dire moment too, we just don't give a collective fuck all because "I don't know that person, why should I care?" That comes around. It's a terrible and immoral thing. And if you happen to believe in Jesus as well, it's something you'll be judged for too....because taking care of the needy was a bit of a big deal to him. He's not going to share your self-satisfying "I am the self-sufficient man" bullshit. Yeah, God helps those who help themselves, but that doesn't mean ignoring everyone else doing worse than you. Maybe people are trying to help themselves, but to you (general you here...no one specific) that's just not enough and so they're lazy in your eyes because you try and you succeed. They don't, so fuck them. Shameful shit happening. Call it Socialism...label it whatever the fuck you want if that makes you feel like you're distinguishing between the values of America and what opposes them, but to ME that kind of thing is about helping people LIVE. Fundamental shit like survival. If you don't think we owe that to one another for the betterment of the nation with which you feel so much pride, you're in for a rude awakening when you yourself need it. And WE are in for an even bigger surprise the more we kick the weak to the curb and make them do dog and pony shows to prove they're worth the little help they're getting already... You have some valid points here and I agree to a certain extent. Problem with your comment about having a stronger workforce if we are healthier is that if you tax the rich guys so much, you know the ones that provide the jobs, then it won't matter how healthy you are, there simply won't be jobs. How many poor people have ever given you a job?? Do you think that the welfare system is not abused by many?? If you do, your crazy. If we keep giving everyone everything, we will take away incentives to work. Now I'm not saying some people don't deserve welfare because anyone can need a helping hand from time to time. We need to implement some programs that teach job skills as part of the welfare program. Something to help teach people while on welfare...a way to get off welfare. Instead we keep giving it to them free, meanwhile generations of families don't know anything but living on welfare. The system is fucked. Is it really helping people in the long run?? Keeping them on welfare is a good thing?? It needs to be overhauled. As far as healthcare, I just don't think we have enough rich people to pay for it. Therefore it will soon be if you make 100k you are rich, then 75k, then 50k. Where does it end? I am for tort reform which would lower healthcare costs. We have medicare. We already have free clinics and many hospitals that won't turn away anyone no matter if covered by insurance or not. Personally, I would rather see an investment in fixing the welfare system than health care. Getting people to work will generate more tax dollars. It will also offer opportunities for health insurance for those people. Instead liberals want to keep on giving free rides to some, while taxing the people that provide us with jobs. But that is the base that keeps liberals in power, so I guess you have to pander to them if you want to stay in power. |
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Post by Justlee on Oct 4, 2011 11:15:51 GMT -5
So you don't think we would save money on the back end?? I think the cost of drug testing would be more than offset by the amount of unemployment we would save by those who fail....and maybe, just maybe it would be incentive for some to find work. But of course, the liberals in power don't want them to find work because they wouldn't be able to keep said power. The liberals have used people on welfare for years. Keeping them down. Generations of families still on welfare with no end in sight. Yea, the program works..... It's the same govt. proposing drug testing them that put them out of work in the first place... And the same government that just keeps giving to them and creating generations of families on welfare. It is a vicious cycle. |
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Post by R&ROVER on Oct 4, 2011 11:36:22 GMT -5
Yes I think some people abuse the system. I also think that some people make up that they've been raped. The danger is becoming complacent and throwing a big tarp over it all and getting to that point where you presume most people are just lying about being raped. You can always find the fuck up in any process and paint the entire picture with that color in photoshop if you're so inclined. The danger is in doing just that because it makes you care less about the problem and switch the focus to the exception. That's a bad path. It's what a lot of people hope happens. They count on it, honestly.
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Post by Justlee on Oct 4, 2011 11:48:01 GMT -5
Yes I think some people abuse the system. I also think that some people make up that they've been raped. The danger is becoming complacent and throwing a big tarp over it all and getting to that point where you presume most people are just lying about being raped. You can always find the fuck up in any process and paint the entire picture with that color in photoshop if you're so inclined. The danger is in doing just that because it makes you care less about the problem and switch the focus to the exception. That's a bad path. It's what a lot of people hope happens. They count on it, honestly. Well I think it needs to be overhauled. We can't just keep throwing money at our problems...I know it's the liberal way and all, but money hasn't fixed this problem whatsoever. It's time to change it, reform it, make it better. Just throwing money at it and hoping it goes away doesn't work. It's not helping people in the long run in it's current state. Like I said, I would rather invest in the welfare system than healthcare. I think we could afford to invest in the welfare system, however, I don't think we can afford healthcare at this point. |
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Post by R&ROVER on Oct 4, 2011 11:55:07 GMT -5
Yes I think some people abuse the system. I also think that some people make up that they've been raped. The danger is becoming complacent and throwing a big tarp over it all and getting to that point where you presume most people are just lying about being raped. You can always find the fuck up in any process and paint the entire picture with that color in photoshop if you're so inclined. The danger is in doing just that because it makes you care less about the problem and switch the focus to the exception. That's a bad path. It's what a lot of people hope happens. They count on it, honestly. We can't just keep throwing money at our problems...I know it's the liberal way and all Didn't you just say we need to spend money to drug test these people? Oh, irony. |
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Post by Justlee on Oct 4, 2011 11:58:31 GMT -5
We can't just keep throwing money at our problems...I know it's the liberal way and all Didn't you just say we need to spend money to drug test these people? Oh, irony. I think we would save money on the back end.....don't you?? |
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Post by Justlee on Oct 4, 2011 12:01:13 GMT -5
Seriously though, I am not necessarily in favor of drug testing people on welfare. I am however in favor of doing SOMETHING rather than the status quo of throwing money their way and hoping it will all work out. It is a problem that is growing and needs to be addressed.
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Post by Justlee on Oct 4, 2011 14:56:35 GMT -5
I think we would save money on the back end.....don't you?? You really think that there's a significant percentage of people, enough to save the govt. money, who've lost their jobs due to the horrible economy and corporate downsizing that are spending their unemployment checks on drugs? LOL So you think none of them are spending their unemployment on drugs??? Like I said, I am not really in favor of it....but I am in favor of doing SOMETHING. Do you think the welfare program is just fine the way it is?? |
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Post by Justlee on Oct 4, 2011 15:08:30 GMT -5
So you think none of them are spending their unemployment on drugs??? Like I said, I am not really in favor of it....but I am in favor of doing SOMETHING. Do you think the welfare program is just fine the way it is?? Of course there are some who would be doing drugs, percentage-wise I'd assume it'd be about even with those who are working and doing drugs. At a time when we have such record amounts of unemployed, worrying about saving a few pennies off potential druggies really isn't what the govt. should be investing in. They should be looking at ways in getting those people back to work, since largely it's their fault they lost their jobs to begin with. Welfare is something altogether different. I definitely think there need to be strict term limits, no more living off the dole. If you're on welfare and have yet more children and expect a bigger check you should be fucked, if you can't afford what you've got now, why have more? I'm not as liberal as Hey Man! LOL Well, I can't really disagree with any of that. |
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