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Post by Hey Man on Apr 7, 2015 23:56:42 GMT -5
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Post by Steve on Apr 8, 2015 0:04:32 GMT -5
I *heart* my Japanese remasters of these albums. Sadly they're out of print now. So much better than the domestic releases.
I've been a huge fan of 5150 since day one, I played OU812 to death while doing a school project on Thailand so I'm a little burned out on it although I still like Mine All Mine and AFU, I think FUCK is near flawless and Balance's good points make up for the duller moments. The Seventh Seal is a damned fine opener.
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Post by Hey Man on Apr 8, 2015 0:06:25 GMT -5
I *heart* my Japanese remasters of these albums. Sadly they're out of print now. So much better than the domestic releases. I've been a huge fan of 5150 since day one, I played OU812 to death while doing a school project on Thailand so I'm a little burned out on it although I still like Mine All Mine and AFU, I think FUCK is near flawless and Balance's good points make up for the duller moments. The Seventh Seal is a damned fine opener. Thank you so much for sending me those remasters. 5150 and OU812 are like a whole new listen.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2015 0:08:41 GMT -5
"No"
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Post by Steve on Apr 8, 2015 0:12:18 GMT -5
I thought so too. Glad you enjoyed them.
The band really blew it in 2004 if you ask me. How much better would that reunion have been with a sober Ed and a new album instead of those three dreadful new songs on Best Of Both Worlds?
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Post by Hey Man on Apr 8, 2015 0:16:08 GMT -5
I thought so too. Glad you enjoyed them. The band really blew it in 2004 if you ask me. How much better would that reunion have been with a sober Ed and a new album instead of those three dreadful new songs on Best Of Both Worlds? Absolutely - Hagar wanted to take time to try to repair the personal stuff and do a proper album FIRST before a tour, but everyone else was looking at tour $$$$$. So they rushed through 3 songs and did the tour.
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Post by B5Erik on Apr 8, 2015 0:17:10 GMT -5
Van Hagar is extremely hit or miss with me - with only about half the songs being hits.
They Van Journey sensibility of far too many songs in the Van Hagar catalog really sours me on this incarnation of the group. They did come up with a few good songs on each of those albums, but there was just too much lightweight Pop stuff on there for my tastes.
I could come up with 2 solid 12 song Van Hagar albums comprised of the best songs from that era. If it were just those two albums made up of just those songs I would be a big time Van Hagar supporter.
Unfortunately, there was the other half of their material during that time that makes me kind of depressed. The band was so special and so unique during the Roth era, and for them to take on styles from Journey and Foreigner (among others) to add to their own just watered down what they had been. That's sad.
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Post by Hey Man on Apr 8, 2015 0:25:53 GMT -5
Van Hagar is extremely hit or miss with me - with only about half the songs being hits. They Van Journey sensibility of far too many songs in the Van Hagar catalog really sours me on this incarnation of the group. They did come up with a few good songs on each of those albums, but there was just too much lightweight Pop stuff on there for my tastes. I could come up with 2 solid 12 song Van Hagar albums comprised of the best songs from that era. If it were just those two albums made up of just those songs I would be a big time Van Hagar supporter. Unfortunately, there was the other half of their material during that time that makes me kind of depressed. The band was so special and so unique during the Roth era, and for them to take on styles from Journey and Foreigner (among others) to add to their own just watered down what they had been. That's sad. To be fair though - the writing was on the wall with 1984. Eddie wanted to change Van Halen - it wasn't Sammy. Pick any singer you want and Van Halen would have still sounded like that. So ultimately you would have been less interested in Van Halen no matter what. I mean consider this - Eddie Van Halen hired Mitch Malloy to be the new singer in Van Halen. Me thinks Eddie wasn't planning on bringing Van Halen back to their classic sound.
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Post by B5Erik on Apr 8, 2015 0:30:33 GMT -5
Van Hagar is extremely hit or miss with me - with only about half the songs being hits. They Van Journey sensibility of far too many songs in the Van Hagar catalog really sours me on this incarnation of the group. They did come up with a few good songs on each of those albums, but there was just too much lightweight Pop stuff on there for my tastes. I could come up with 2 solid 12 song Van Hagar albums comprised of the best songs from that era. If it were just those two albums made up of just those songs I would be a big time Van Hagar supporter. Unfortunately, there was the other half of their material during that time that makes me kind of depressed. The band was so special and so unique during the Roth era, and for them to take on styles from Journey and Foreigner (among others) to add to their own just watered down what they had been. That's sad. To be fair though - the writing was on the wall with 1984. Eddie wanted to change Van Halen - it wasn't Sammy. Pick any singer you want and Van Halen would have still sounded like that. So ultimately you would have been less interested in Van Halen no matter what. I mean consider this - Eddie Van Halen hired Mitch Malloy to be the new singer in Van Halen. Me thinks Eddie wasn't planning on bringing Van Halen back to their classic sound. No question Eddie was half of the equation. But with Roth in the band he could only go so far. Sammy, on the other hand, was himself a closeted music wimp. He loved Pop and he enjoyed doing ballads. Standing Hampton was a full 2/3 Pop or ballads. VOA was a little harder edged, but still wasn't nearly as hard edged as classic Van Halen. Regardless of who was to blame, the Van Hagar era saw Van Halen putting out more generic Pop Rock and less of the unique Hard Rock they were known for. Like I said, though, they did put out what I see as two solid albums worth of good material...
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Post by Hey Man on Apr 8, 2015 0:42:48 GMT -5
To be fair though - the writing was on the wall with 1984. Eddie wanted to change Van Halen - it wasn't Sammy. Pick any singer you want and Van Halen would have still sounded like that. So ultimately you would have been less interested in Van Halen no matter what. I mean consider this - Eddie Van Halen hired Mitch Malloy to be the new singer in Van Halen. Me thinks Eddie wasn't planning on bringing Van Halen back to their classic sound. No question Eddie was half of the equation. But with Roth in the band he could only go so far. Sammy, on the other hand, was himself a closeted music wimp. He loved Pop and he enjoyed doing ballads. Standing Hampton was a full 2/3 Pop or ballads. VOA was a little harder edged, but still wasn't nearly as hard edged as classic Van Halen. Regardless of who was to blame, the Van Hagar era saw Van Halen putting out more generic Pop Rock and less of the unique Hard Rock they were known for. Like I said, though, they did put out what I see as two solid albums worth of good material... This is kick ass. www.recordsale.de/cdpix/h/hsas-throughthefire.jpg
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2015 0:53:02 GMT -5
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Post by Hey Man on Apr 8, 2015 0:58:01 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2015 1:06:14 GMT -5
The problem with this lineup isn't just the change in sound - the songwriting took a nosedive, too. Hagar has been on auto-pilot since the first Montrose album and his song lyrics on the Van Halen albums are so fucking awful, it just ruins so many of the songs for me. The ballads suffer most (and there are a lot of them) since what Hagar is singing about is obviously the focus of these songs.
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Post by Hey Man on Apr 8, 2015 1:08:58 GMT -5
The problem with this lineup isn't just the change in sound - the songwriting took a nosedive, too. Hagar has been on auto-pilot since the first Montrose album and his song lyrics on the Van Halen albums are so fucking awful, it just ruins so many of the songs for me. The ballads suffer most (and there are a lot of them) since what Hagar is singing about is obviously the focus of these songs. Have you truly listened to Hagar's stuff front to back since Montrose? How is this not fucking awesome for example?
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Post by Hey Man on Apr 8, 2015 1:12:10 GMT -5
From 5150 - these are fantastic songs for example:
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2015 1:22:10 GMT -5
My interest in Van Halen stopped with 1984 and came back with A Different Kind of Truth. I just didn't care for Van Hagar - the style of the music just wasn't for me. That said, I like Sammy and I'm a Montrose fan, for sure.
The aggressive "Dave-Only" fans are beyond silly - mostly for their attitude. Yes, I'm kind of a "Dave-Only" type but I have nothing against Van Hagar or anyone who enjoys or prefers it.
But it astounds me that Sammy gets blamed for the musical style shift, in a negative way. While sure, he had an influence - but overall, fans seemingly don't notice that the style shift really began with 1984 and not with Hagar. That album is when the metamorphosis began.
The rivalry of fans is very silly. I'm 99.9% positive it started with the Dave fans, too.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2015 1:29:14 GMT -5
The problem with this lineup isn't just the change in sound - the songwriting took a nosedive, too. Hagar has been on auto-pilot since the first Montrose album and his song lyrics on the Van Halen albums are so fucking awful, it just ruins so many of the songs for me. The ballads suffer most (and there are a lot of them) since what Hagar is singing about is obviously the focus of these songs. Have you truly listened to Hagar's stuff front to back since Montrose? How is this not fucking awesome for example? That fucking song is nearly everything I dislike about post-Montrose Sammy Hagar. I've given several of his solo albums a chance. Some are half decent (The Red Album, Standing Hampton), but there's not much I'd go out of my way to listen to again. Chickenfoot had some really good songs...and a lot of filler, too. He hasn't done anything since Montrose that has been consistent from start to finish, which is why I don't want him back in Van Halen.
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Post by Hey Man on Apr 8, 2015 1:37:06 GMT -5
Have you truly listened to Hagar's stuff front to back since Montrose? How is this not fucking awesome for example? That fucking song is nearly everything I dislike about post-Montrose Sammy Hagar. I've given several of his solo albums a chance. Some are half decent (The Red Album, Standing Hampton), but there's not much I'd go out of my way to listen to again. Chickenfoot had some really good songs...and a lot of filler, too. He hasn't done anything since Montrose that has been consistent from start to finish, which is why I don't want him back in Van Halen. How can you hate Heavy Metal - fuck even LED loves that song. It's seemingly one of those songs that people like - even if they hate everything else that he has done. You don't even like HSAS? Look I am not trying to tell you that Hagar has all these great albums - Street Machine is great, Standing Hampton is great HSAS is great, VOA has moments, so does I Never Said Goodbye and Marching To Mars is very good. It's hit and miss after that. I love this song:
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2015 1:45:40 GMT -5
From 5150 - these are fantastic songs for example: 5150 has a GREAT chorus, but that's about it. I'm not a fan of Summer Nights. Get Up is probably my "favorite" track on the album if I had to pick one.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2015 1:48:41 GMT -5
You don't even like HSAS? I haven't heard HSAS before but that song did nothing for me.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2015 2:21:56 GMT -5
No question Eddie was half of the equation. But with Roth in the band he could only go so far. Sammy, on the other hand, was himself a closeted music wimp. He loved Pop and he enjoyed doing ballads. Standing Hampton was a full 2/3 Pop or ballads. VOA was a little harder edged, but still wasn't nearly as hard edged as classic Van Halen. Regardless of who was to blame, the Van Hagar era saw Van Halen putting out more generic Pop Rock and less of the unique Hard Rock they were known for. Like I said, though, they did put out what I see as two solid albums worth of good material... This is kick ass. www.recordsale.de/cdpix/h/hsas-throughthefire.jpgI'll give that a listen - but jeez, does that cover look like the packaging on a dollar-store brand of action figures.
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Post by Vandelay Industries on Apr 8, 2015 8:25:13 GMT -5
Give me parts of OU812 and FUCK, and the rest you can throw to the bottom of a lake. God, 5150 has such dated production, it makes me giggle just hearing 10 seconds of it....fucking Tom Scholz has better drum sounds from his last three Boston albums, and believe me, that's saying something....
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2015 12:31:25 GMT -5
Van Hagar was like the cute Cousin Oliver on the Brady Bunch. Likable, but lacking actual bite. Van Halen with DLR was the real fucking deal. Nothing Hagar was involved with even comes close to topping this:
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Post by DWF on Apr 8, 2015 17:18:41 GMT -5
Like all eras incl. some of the Cherone album & tour. All eras have both greatness and filler. Loaded with pluses and negatives and various trade-offs:
-LOVE DLR on the first four records (especially FAIR WARNING) but live he's always been style over substance. Not a fan live.
-Hagar has always had a 10x better voice but his lyrics aren't as witty and real (ala Gillan & Tyler) as DLR's.
-Hagar gets a bad wrap for a lot ballads and love songs and the intro of the keyboard era and Dave's was always hard rock. Horseshit. JUMP & I'LL WAIT anyone? Both line-ups played 'both sides of the street' despite the Hagar era getting the bulk of their radio hits picked for their more commercial side. HUMANS BEING & JUDGEMENT DAY crunch just as hard as the likes of UNCHAINED and MEAN STREET. DON'T TELL ME and THE SEVENTH SEAL are just as ballsy as DOA and ROMEO DELIGHT.
Everybody always wastes time and energy "choosing sides" instead of embracing the music for what it is. Good music is good music regardless of who was in the band first, blah blah blah.
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Post by DWF on Apr 8, 2015 17:20:13 GMT -5
God, 5150 has such dated production, it makes me giggle just hearing 10 seconds of it....fucking Tom Scholz has better drum sounds from his last three Boston albums, and believe me, that's saying something.... Agreed. Always been a major pet peeve. Ruins a lot of the material for me.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2015 17:25:41 GMT -5
Like all areas incl. some of the Cherone album & tour. All eras have both greatness and filler. Loaded with pluses and negatives and various trade-offs: -LOVE DLR on the first four records (especially FAIR WARNING) but live he's always been style over substance. Not a fan live. -Hagar has always had a 10x better voice but his lyrics aren't as witty and real (ala Gillan & Tyler) as DLR's. -Hagar get a bad wrap for a lot ballads and love songs and the intro of the key era and Dave's was always hard rock. Horseshit. JUMP & I'LL WAIT anyone. Both line-ups played 'both sides of the street' despite the Hagar era getting the bulk of the bulk of their radio hits picked for their more commercial side. HUMANS BEING & JUDGEMENT DAY crunch just as hard as UNCHAINED and MEAN STREET. DON'T TELL ME and THE SEVENTH SEAL are just as ballsy as DOA and ROMEO DELIGHT. Everybody always wastes time and energy "choosing sides" instead of embracing the music for what it is. Good music is good music regardless of who was in the band first, bla blah blah. I agree with all of this. I'm like Sheer Heart Attack, an all-Dave guy, but I don't see a problem in anyone enjoying any line-up of any band, as long as the music makes you feel good. I own 5150 on vinyl, and also bought the tape when it came out. It's a great pop/hard rock record. Summer Nights and Best Of Both Worlds are great songs. I could actually see Dave do those songs justice. That being said, I never considered any other line-up outside of the Dave-era (74-85) to be worthy of being called "Van Halen". If anything, the Sammy-era was good enough to deserve it's own unique band name. Yes, a name has a lot of power and connotation for me. I guess original Kiss fans feel the same (though I make that exception: Kiss is Simmons and Stanley, regardless of who else is in the band). At any rate, "Van Hagar" made some great music, and there's nothing wrong with enjoying any line-up of any band.
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Post by DWF on Apr 8, 2015 17:33:51 GMT -5
^^^ I've always had a live and let live approach when bands shift members and keep the name. Who are we as fans to dictate a band's calling card/commercial selling point. Not fair to the artist.
Some fans guilted THIN LIZZY into this in recent years and to avoid business hassles with 'Sharon the bitch' the RJD lead version of Sabbath renamed itself Heaven & Hell. It shouldn't be that complicated in the long run.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2015 17:35:50 GMT -5
^^^ I've always had a live and let live approach when bands shift members and keep the name. Who are we as fans to dictate a band's calling card/commercial selling point. Not fair to the artist. Some fans guilted THIN LIZZY into this in recent years and to avoid business hassles with 'Sharon the bitch' the RJD lead version of Sabbath renamed itself Heaven & Hell. It shouldn't be that complicated in the long run. Ultimately, you are right, and I agree.
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Post by DWF on Apr 8, 2015 17:38:11 GMT -5
^^^ I've always had a live and let live approach when bands shift members and keep the name. Who are we as fans to dictate a band's calling card/commercial selling point. Not fair to the artist. Some fans guilted THIN LIZZY into this in recent years and to avoid business hassles with 'Sharon the bitch' the RJD lead version of Sabbath renamed itself Heaven & Hell. It shouldn't be that complicated in the long run. Ultimately, you are right, and I agree. See!?!?!?!? LOL Old age and wisdom is a long time coming. The younger version of me picked this shit to pieces and analyzed it to death. Those days are LONG GONE - give me the music and the live gigs.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2015 17:47:04 GMT -5
Ultimately, you are right, and I agree. See!?!?!?!? LOL Old age and wisdom is a long time coming. The younger version of me picked this shit to pieces and analyzed it to death. Those days are LONG GONE - give me the music and the live gigs. Absolutely! Gone are the days of the heavy metal horns in the air seriousness of fanboy bullshit. Enjoy what makes you feel good. I mean, I don't like an Adam Lambert fronted Queen, but I'll be damned if there aren't people really digging it and having a great time with it. More power to them. Enjoyment.... What a concept!
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