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Post by Hey Man on Nov 16, 2015 19:28:39 GMT -5
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Post by DWF on Nov 16, 2015 20:28:54 GMT -5
Thanks.... save yourself some hassle and get more names in by ditching the pics... Peter Criss - Credit where due, his style (as limited as it was concerning techinque) had a great unique feel on the first 3 records. I kept in touch with Stan Penridge the last couple years of his life and he swore that pre KISS Criss' playing was far superior and he really believed the pressure of being in the band (and of course his vices) ruined a promising drumming career. We'll never know. In dealing with Criss quite a bit from the mid 80's on, I never saw him as a good guy or as someone who cared about his craft. He was always more con- cerned about getting 'his due' and being treated like a star...He threw away his 'gift'. Eric Carr - Underrated and underappreciated. Carr had a great ear for fills and had a slightly different approach. People tend to think of him as a more simple 4/4 player but that was the hand he was dealt with the bulk of KISS' 80's material. He grew up with Lenny White and loved more groove oriented material and loved to play R&B flavored rock and hard rock. I always preferred his playing on tracks like I've Had Enough, Creatures, King Of the Mountain, The Oath. Even enjoyed is play behind the beat 'drag' of his fills in I Still Love You. He had his own little niche and never really had a chance to show that in KISS. He was a very funny and down to earth guy. Honest, open & sentimental. Greatly missed - never forgotten. Eric Singer - Tremendous player. Not only the best drummer to ever have been in the band, he is one of the best all around hard rock players of the last 25 years. Chameleon like qualities in the studio and live. Always finds a way to achieve what the artist wants (hence his ability to be requested for notoriously particular guitarists Gary Moore and Brian May). His playing with Sabbath in '86 was just brutal. A year later he's playing more intricate/melodic material with Gary Moore perfectly. Then he works his way through Badlands (major favorite), Stanley solo, Alice Cooper, KISS, etc... Seriously dedicated to his playing - most people will NEVER his versatility and capabilities because the material he plays does not call for that. He simply chooses to play what fits... a long lesson learned after going "full on" and overplaying from Sabbath to Cooper in his early days.Like Carr, he never cared about being a star, just loved being a working drummer in a successful act. He's very sharp. Very funny. Drips with sarcasm. Underneath all the sarcasm is a softy and one of my favorite people for many, many years.
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Post by Hey Man on Nov 16, 2015 21:24:02 GMT -5
Thanks.... save yourself some hassle and get more names in by ditching the pics... Peter Criss - Credit where due, his style (as limited as it was concerning techinque) had a great unique feel on the first 3 records. I kept in touch with Stan Penridge the last couple years of his life and he swore that pre KISS Criss' playing was far superior and he really believed the pressure of being in the band (and of course his vices) ruined a promising drumming career. We'll never know. In dealing with Criss quite a bit from the mid 80's on, I never saw him as a good guy or as someone who cared about his craft. He was always more con- cerned about getting 'his due' and being treated like a star...He threw away his 'gift'. Eric Carr - Underrated and underappreciated. Carr had a great ear for fills and had a slightly different approach. People tend to think of him as a more simple 4/4 player but that was the hand he was dealt with the bulk of KISS' 80's material. He grew up with Lenny White and loved more groove oriented material and loved to play R&B flavored rock and hard rock. I always preferred his playing on tracks like I've Had Enough, Creatures, King Of the Mountain, The Oath. Even enjoyed is play behind the beat 'drag' of his fills in I Still Love You. He had his own little niche and never really had a chance to show that in KISS. He was a very funny and down to earth guy. Honest, open & sentimental. Greatly missed - never forgotten. Eric Singer - Tremendous player. Not only the best drummer to ever have been in the band, he is one of the best all around hard rock players of the last 25 years. Chameleon like qualities in the studio and live. Always finds a way to achieve what the artist wants (hence his ability to be requested for notoriously particular guitarists Gary Moore and Brian May). His playing with Sabbath in '86 was just brutal. A year later he's playing more intricate/melodic material with Gary Moore perfectly. Then he works his way through Badlands (major favorite), Stanley solo, Alice Cooper, KISS, etc... Seriously dedicated to his playing - most people will NEVER his versatility and capabilities because the material he plays does not call for that. He simply chooses to play what fits... a long lesson learned after going "full on" and overplaying from Sabbath to Cooper in his early days.Like Carr, he never cared about being a star, just loved being a working drummer in a successful act. He's very sharp. Very funny. Drips with sarcasm. Underneath all the sarcasm is a softy and one of my favorite people for many, many years. I don't want to bombard you with a ton of drummers. I would like you to take your time with each one and be extensive, so I will list 3 or 4 at a time. Like most people say - Peter was great on the first few albums and was just OK on the later albums. I love the playing on Strange Ways and while not difficult - Larger Than Life, although it's still up for debate that it's even Peter. I can't recall who it was, but someone recently said it's not Peter. As for Eric Carr, I thought he was very average - Creatures and LIU were the albums where he shined and then everything after that was mediocre as fuck. Having said that, I wouldn't be surprised if Eric Carr was much more talented than he came across on the albums and live, but like Bruce Kulick - was seemingly held back from really bringing their own sauce into the band. I agree that Eric Singer is the best drummer in KISS, but I prefer his Revenge/Carnival playing over his more basic playing that he brings to the band now - more like Peter Criss? My preference is for a little flash and showmanship with my favorite virtuoso drummers as opposed to hanging back and just keeping the beat for the most part. Any drummer can do that. I prefer the double bass drums too.
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Post by DWF on Nov 18, 2015 18:36:32 GMT -5
C'mon...while we're young....
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Post by Hey Man on Nov 18, 2015 20:46:54 GMT -5
C'mon...while we're young.... Oh, I was waiting for you to respond to my comments. Rikki Rockett Bobby Blotzer Tommy Lee
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Post by DWF on Nov 18, 2015 21:56:15 GMT -5
C'mon...while we're young.... Oh, I was waiting for you to respond to my comments. Rikki Rockett Bobby Blotzer Tommy Lee Rikki Rockett - Always takes heat. The look...the vibe, etc. Guy was always good to me and he actually busted his ass to study/work on his playing around NATIVE TONGUE. Basic rock drummer and unfairly ragged. Lots of players out there much less capable who are more successful then Rik.
Bobby Blotzer - Have never been a huge fan of his playing but have been told he is capaple of more than we see /hear. Not the brightest bulb.. lol Met a few times over the years he seems nice enough. WAs especially cool when I met him at soundcheck during OUT OF THE CELLAR. Surprised they ended up headlining as quickly as they did and that the platinum records hit a few in a row. Always seemed like a perennial opener with a few decent songs and an awful singer (see Posion) Tommy Lee - Easily the best of the bunch; was a great player in the 80's and 90's; came a from a pretty serious rudimentary background. Always likeable and friendly but a big goofy kid just the same... LOVE his playing on the '94 Corabi record. VERY underrated album and an amazing drum sound courtesy of Bob Rock... Here's a pic I took at sound check in '99-'00.... (He's was already sporting the dreds and expressing a desire to play hip hop, etc and make his own music instead of drumming.....ugh)
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Post by Hey Man on Nov 18, 2015 23:21:19 GMT -5
Vinny Appice
Carmine Appice
Frankie Banali
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Post by DWF on Nov 19, 2015 17:50:19 GMT -5
Vinny Appice - Was just discussing him the other day. Though some of his recent playing sounds pretty good, I've always found the bulk of his earlier Sabbath and Dio era playing to be plodding and pretty heavy handed. Like some of his fills and material from the first 2 Dio records as well as some of DREAM EVIL. I actually like his playing on Sabbath's Country Girl as well...my favorite track off of MOB RULES. As a rock drummer I give him a 5 or 6.
Carmine Appice - Older brother was a killer player in his younger days. His work with Jeff Beck was great. He coasted for years with Rod Stewart and started to get his chops back together with Ozzy and was really back firing on all cylinders live with BLUE MURDER. (Have seen him play many times with many acts over the years and the BLUE MURDER gig was by far my favorite.) He told me he was supposed to play on Stanley's entire '78 solo record but couldn't due to other obligations and was also slated to do the solo tour that year that never panned out. He's a bit goofy and has a reputation of pissing off drum and cymbal companies but I enjoy much of his work from the 70's thru the 90's. I'd give him a 7 for that time period.
Frankie Banali - Have never been a QR fan but I do enjoy his drumming (especially his recording wrok with other acts: Hughes/Thrall, WASP, etc). He's one of the few hard rock players that sites Bonham as a major influence who does an incredible job replicating his licks. I've seen him do a tremendous job at live tributes, etc. Wish he would have got the Ozzy gig when Sarzo joined. Shame it didn;t pan out. think he would have done a great job with that early catalog. Give him a 7.5.
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Post by DWF on Nov 19, 2015 17:54:59 GMT -5
Backtracking before I forget...
Peter Criss - 5.5/6
Eric Carr - 7
Eric Singer - 8.5/9
Rikki Rockett - 6
Bobby Blotzer - 6
Tommy Lee - 7.5
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Post by DWF on Nov 19, 2015 17:56:09 GMT -5
SCB- No lurking...chime in, bud...
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Post by Hey Man on Nov 19, 2015 18:54:09 GMT -5
Very cool DWF.
John Panozzo
Todd Sucherman
Steve Smith
Deen Castronovo
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Post by DWF on Nov 19, 2015 19:25:03 GMT -5
John Panozzo - NEVER saw John live...ever. I've only heard his studio and live work on album and video/dvd. I like his playing but he never was never on my radar as a favorite. RIP John.... Give him a 6.5.
Todd Sucherman - Todd is a rarity. Amazing player, amazing person. Total musician. He overplays his ass off but somehow it works. Nobody in a major rock act over the last 15 years or so has his chops. Total freak of nature. My first & possibly only 10.
Steve Smith - Smoothness..sophisticated...incredible hands. Love Smitty. From his rock playing to his jazz playing he is a total professional. His sticking is one of a kind.... 9.5/10 (Hate to give 2 10's...lol)
Deen Castronovo - Love Deen and it was VERY tough watching him go through his legal problems this past year. Breaks my heart...have known him a very long time. His talent as a singer and drummer is unquestionable. Though he's done an amazing job in Journey, his heart really lies in hard rock & metal bands, etc. Has a much heavier approach to his playing than most. Enjoyed his recordings with Vai, Ozzy, Hardline, etc... never disappoints with his playing. A very solid 9 as a drummer and a singer.
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Post by Hey Man on Nov 19, 2015 20:12:49 GMT -5
Funny enough, Todd Sucherman does NOTHING for me. I find his playing to be bland despite his ability and I am not sure what the drum equivalent is per the guitar, but I don't like Todd's drum tone/sound. I prefer a more beefy drum sound - Todd's drum sound is more thin if you know what I mean.
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Post by DWF on Nov 20, 2015 7:21:12 GMT -5
Funny enough, Todd Sucherman does NOTHING for me. I find his playing to be bland despite his ability and I am not sure what the drum equivalent is per the guitar, but I don't like Todd's drum tone/sound. I prefer a more beefy drum sound - Todd's drum sound is more thin if you know what I mean. I can't for the life of me think of what you're describing unless it was a video clip or studio recording mix. You say you like chops, flash and lots of double bass and he is that in spades. Drums through an arena or theater PA are not "thin" by any means (whereas guitar sounds can be due to effects, make, etc). Not sure what you're going for...think you bumped your head.
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Post by Hey Man on Nov 20, 2015 8:10:02 GMT -5
Funny enough, Todd Sucherman does NOTHING for me. I find his playing to be bland despite his ability and I am not sure what the drum equivalent is per the guitar, but I don't like Todd's drum tone/sound. I prefer a more beefy drum sound - Todd's drum sound is more thin if you know what I mean. I can't for the life of me think of what you're describing unless it was a video clip or studio recording mix. You say you like chops, flash and lots of double bass and he is that in spades. Drums through an arena or theater PA are not "thin" by any means (whereas guitar sounds can be due to effects, make, etc). Not sure what you're going for...think you bumped your head. LOL. Maybe. Don't take it personally. I am sure there are people who don't like John Bonham. And my comments have nothing to do with his talent or ability. In many of his instructional videos - the drum sets that he chooses to play have a very thin sound, which is also reflected in the drum sound on Cyclorama and Big Bang Theory, which yes is a studio recording mix - but one that I assume he is happy with. We all have our preferences. Just like I prefer the Revenge era Eric Singer to anything that he has done with KISS since then.
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Post by DWF on Nov 21, 2015 8:27:51 GMT -5
LOL. Maybe. Don't take it personally. I am sure there are people who don't like John Bonham. And my comments have nothing to do with his talent or ability. In many of his instructional videos - the drum sets that he chooses to play have a very thin sound, which is also reflected in the drum sound on Cyclorama and Big Bang Theory, which yes is a studio recording mix - but one that I assume he is happy with. We all have our preferences. Just like I prefer the Revenge era Eric Singer to anything that he has done with KISS since then. Todd live sounds like a thunderstorm...need to check him out. And FYI: Revenge era Singer on record sounded flat and dried up thanks to Gene wanting a "tight/dry AC/DC type sound". Wasn't Singer's preference or mine.LOL Ezrin took away the ambience of the kit and dried it up on GS' request. They had Kramer do the same on ALIVE III. Shame too. Original drum tracks were full on and ballsy.
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Post by Hey Man on Nov 21, 2015 11:38:02 GMT -5
LOL. Maybe. Don't take it personally. I am sure there are people who don't like John Bonham. And my comments have nothing to do with his talent or ability. In many of his instructional videos - the drum sets that he chooses to play have a very thin sound, which is also reflected in the drum sound on Cyclorama and Big Bang Theory, which yes is a studio recording mix - but one that I assume he is happy with. We all have our preferences. Just like I prefer the Revenge era Eric Singer to anything that he has done with KISS since then. Todd live sounds like a thunderstorm...need to check him out. And FYI: Revenge era Singer on record sounded flat and dried up thanks to Gene wanting a "tight/dry AC/DC type sound". Wasn't Singer's preference or mine.LOL Ezrin took away the ambience of the kit and dried it up on GS' request. They had Kramer do the same on ALIVE III. Shame too. Original drum tracks were full on and ballsy. I love Revenge and Singer's playing style during that time live. I don't like Styx that much to analyze Sucherman. Not unlike people who hate Portnoy, despite the greatest drummer ever praise he gets - Sucherman just doesn't do it for me.
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Post by Hey Man on Nov 21, 2015 11:43:29 GMT -5
David Dowle
Ian Paice
Cozy Powell
Ansley Dunbar
Tommy Aldridge
Denny Carmassi
Chris Fraizer
Brian Tichy
Whitesnake Drummers - you can split these up if it's too many names at once.
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Post by DWF on Nov 21, 2015 12:14:46 GMT -5
I love Revenge and Singer's playing style during that time live. Absolutely. Saw roughly 20 shows that tour due to him. Never cared for the bulk of the record but loved ES playing that vintage material with a punch: Parasite, Watchin' You, I Want You, Creatures, etc... Elevated the band and made them much tighter and made them more edgy at the same time.
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Post by DWF on Nov 21, 2015 12:49:57 GMT -5
David Dowle - No exposure other than his studio work. (6)
Ian Paice - A master. Loose but great chops. Have seen and met him many times with Purple and once with Gary Moore. A legend and rightfully so. Prefer his post '84 Purple playing/work for the most part. Great talent. (9)
Cozy Powell- See Paice. After seeing him play live for years I finally met him in the late 80's with Sabbath and later in the 90's with Brian May. HUGE influence. His playing with Rainbow & MSG is still something I borrow from without thinking. Kind hearted and missed. As a kid I never dreamed I'd meet him nevermind being introduced to Iommi and May as "a friend of mine". (9)
Ansley Dunbar - Grew up on him in Journey (prior to Smith) but also loved is recording work with Starship, UFO, & Whitesnake.Would have been curious to hear his work on REVENGE (Ezrin had him try a few takes.) Very good player. (8)
Tommy Aldridge - Saw him first with Ozzy and later with Whitesnake. He's a bit of a one trick pony stylistically but he does it VERY WELL. Nice but a bit aloof. Love his live work with DC & company especially his playing on the likes of CRYING IN THE RAIN & SLIP OF THE TONGUE. (8.5)
Denny Carmassi - Love Denny's playing. HUGELY underrated. His work with Heart , DC, Whitesnake, Foreigner and Montrose is fantastic. One of the few players who could truly creative on a ballad just as well as a rock track. (see his playing on HEART'S ALONE and COVERDALE/PAGE's TAKE ME FOR A LITTLE WHILE. Incredible feel. (9)
Chris Fraizer - Solid straight forward player but not a favorite. His playing in Whitesnake and Foreigner is my only exposure. (6)
Brian Tichy - Modern day Bonham meets Powell. Excels at double bass but still has great feel and chops. Met him first in the 90's and always found him to be a melting of many drumming influences (like myself). Good guy - always outgoing. (9)
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Post by Maestro63 on Nov 21, 2015 14:07:10 GMT -5
Phil Collins
Will Calhoun
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2015 15:11:46 GMT -5
Barry Brandt (Angel)
Mick Tucker (Sweet)
Joey Kramer
Herman Rarebell
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Post by DWF on Nov 21, 2015 16:05:13 GMT -5
Thanks for chiming in, gents... Phil Collins - Love Phil's playing. I think folks tend to forget what a great player and singer is/was due to his latter poppy work. Love his playing in early Genesis and enjoy stuff like "Turn It On" and "Paperlate" as well. Never had the privilege to meet/interview him. Even with his success he's hugely underrated. (8) Will Calhoun - Monster player with incredible chops and feel. Used to keep in touch with Will heavily in the 90's... miss talking to him. His work on STAIN is my favorite by far. Love his subtle approach and writing on NOTHINGNESS. He's a great composite of hard rock, funk, fusion, jazz...all around great player. (9.5) Barry Brandt (Angel) - Very underrated 70's influence. Very Bonham-esque in approach and very talented. Met him once and had a great lengthy chat. (Which was tough because he talks like a cartoon character and my buddy and I were pissing ourselves afterwards. lol) Could have had so many major gigs and didn't pursue much post ANGEL. (Incl. Ozzy) As an ANGEL nut I loved the playing but Frank's vocals could grate on my nerves...never overshadowed BB's playing though. Love his feel on cuts like ON THE ROCKS, DON'T TAKE YOUR LOVE, JUST A DREAM, CAN YOU FEEL IT, etc. (8) Mick Tucker (Sweet) My wife is more of a SWEET fan than myself but as kid at 13 I was fascinated by LOVE IS LIKE OXYGEN and busted my ass to learn it front to back. Never had the pleasure to meet him before his passing. Good player. (7) Joey Kramer - Used to deal with Joey a lot through the 90's and early 2000's. Great pocket player...impeccable timekeeper and undervalued. Always polite to me but not a huge fan of him personally (too much of the hard NYC vibe ala Criss) (8) Herman Rarebell - I've spoken to Herman once and he was a gentleman and very fun. As a player he was okay. My favorite material ran from LOVEDRIVE to BLACKOUT and he was replaced on some of those recordings by my old buddy Bobby Rondinell; who also replace Kramer on ROCK IN A HARD PLACE. Good basic player in his day. (6.5)
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Post by Hey Man on Nov 21, 2015 16:45:27 GMT -5
Simon Kirke
Jerry Shirley
Bobby Chouinard
Jim Fox
Lee Kerslake
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Post by DWF on Nov 22, 2015 13:46:35 GMT -5
Simon Kirke - Has played in 2 legendary bands. Good pocket player....more of a songwriter/arranger than a major player. Very likable when I dealt with him in the 80's and 90's. (6.5)
Jerry Shirley - Tremendous feel. Loved his work with Marriott and co. as well as Fastway. Saw him a few times with them but never met him. (7.5)
Bobby Chouinard - Loved Bobby's chops and feel. Extremely underrated player who did a lot of session work. Met him a few times when he toured with Billy Squier in the 80's. (Actually had never witnessed anything like this in 30 years of working around drummers: Squier got behind Bobby's kit and tweaked the snare to get the sound HE wanted. Tuned it to his liking at check... very particular. LOL ) Bobby is greatly missed. (8)
Jim Fox - Great feel. Love the legacy of the James Gang's music (both Joe W and Tommy B) but I have little knowledge of him and have never been fortunate enough to meet him. (7)
Lee Kerslake- Loved his playing with Heep and Ozzy. More feel than chops. Pretty underrated. Read a sad article/photos on him recently in a British drum mag and he's in pretty poor health - sad to see/hear. (7)
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Post by Hey Man on Nov 22, 2015 15:06:04 GMT -5
I thought you would have placed Kirke higher - I think his playing on the Free and early Bad Company albums make him like an 8 out of 10.
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Post by Hey Man on Nov 22, 2015 15:09:31 GMT -5
Tico Torres
Rob Affuso
Troy Luccketta
"Wild" Mick Brown
Michael Lee
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Post by DWF on Nov 22, 2015 15:45:11 GMT -5
I thought you would have placed Kirke higher - I think his playing on the Free and early Bad Company albums make him like an 8 out of 10. Very simple player. Like I said, great pocket but more of a writer /arranger than someone who would impress with his ability/technique.
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Post by DWF on Nov 22, 2015 16:03:31 GMT -5
Tico Torres - So underrated due to the JOVI name (and people forgot how well he can play since their material over the last 20 years is a watered down mess). Kept in touch with him through the 80's and 90's but haven't seen him/them since '95. Great versatile player with a background in many forms of music. Hit like a monster in the 80's and 90's. Tough little bastard. (8.5) Played on one of my all time favorite songs...... Rob Affuso - Nice guy - very good player. Another I've heard is versed in his technique but kept it simple with SKID ROW. Haven't talked to him in years but heard he's recording with Howarth/Regan. (7.5) Troy Luccketta - Love Troy. Dear old friend. Hands, hands and more hands. Able to play everything from hard rock, to prog rock, to R&B. Always impressed me with his hi-hat work in particular. Hoping to catch up with him soon in 2016 as they may add live dates for Whitford/St Holmes. (9) "Wild" Mick Brown - Funny guy...such a character. Solid pocket player - all about meter-not real fills ala Rudd. (7) Michael Lee - Loved his work with Lizzy, Page/Plant and The Cult. Very energetic approach to playing as opposed to being a "wrist player" but it worked for him obviously. Terrible shame - gone way too soon. Never met him. (8)
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Post by Hey Man on Nov 22, 2015 18:23:27 GMT -5
Harry James
Jason Bonham
Mike Mangini
Pat Torpey
Ken Mary
Steve Gorman
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