|
Post by Justlee on Jan 29, 2012 10:20:45 GMT -5
A good producer would try and weed the shit out. That never happened on SB. Whoever said SB was better sonically than anything Ezrin ever produced with the band simply wasn't listening. I will be interested to see how Monster is distributed, and the resulting sales. Oh, and it is not fair to say they didn't work hard on SB. They had to write a "spaceman" themed song and copy and paste a bunch of Ace's solos. They will be dong that again on Monster. Thats a lot of work. I said...sonicaly....Sonic Boom is better than anything Ezrin ever did with the band. Now, I'm not talking about songwriting arrangements and the like. And of course you will be interested in Monster's sales...you have your fingers crossed that they tank.........
|
|
|
Post by Spirit on Jan 29, 2012 10:57:25 GMT -5
A good producer would try and weed the shit out. That never happened on SB. Whoever said SB was better sonically than anything Ezrin ever produced with the band simply wasn't listening. I will be interested to see how Monster is distributed, and the resulting sales. Oh, and it is not fair to say they didn't work hard on SB. They had to write a "spaceman" themed song and copy and paste a bunch of Ace's solos. They will be dong that again on Monster. Thats a lot of work. I said...sonicaly....Sonic Boom is better than anything Ezrin ever did with the band. Now, I'm not talking about songwriting arrangements and the like. And of course you will be interested in Monster's sales...you have your fingers crossed that they tank......... And I said, you never listened. Sonically, Sonic Boom is not good.
|
|
|
Post by B5Erik on Jan 29, 2012 11:11:24 GMT -5
It's funny. The comparisons to Van Halen would find KISS falling short 30 years ago, too.
Not many KISS studio albums hold up to VH, VHII, or Fair Warning. KISS' best studio albums are barely better than Diver Down (which is an underrated album), 1984, and Women and Children First. Some people would say that they aren't even as good as those albums.
So I would not find it at all surprising that many fans of both bands would prefer the new Van Halen album to the last KISS album - they would have voted the same way in 1978, 1979, 1980, 1981, etc.
I may like A Different Kind Of Truth more than Sonic Boom. I may not.
As of yet I haven't heard anything great on ADKOT from a chorus hook & vocal melody standpoint. Hell, everything that I've heard is mediocre from a hook/melody standpoint. They screwed up the old demos by changing the vocal melodies - from the bits I've heard the new versions are inferior to the 1976 demos. The original versions were WAY hookier and catchier, and had more energy, too. I'm still hoping that the full versions of the songs show something great that the clips are missing.
Still, I like what I've heard from the new VH. It's definitely going to be a good album. How good it is, and whether it crosses the line from good album to VH classic are the questions remaining to be answered.
|
|
|
Post by Justlee on Jan 29, 2012 11:21:07 GMT -5
It's funny. The comparisons to Van Halen would find KISS falling short 30 years ago, too. Not many KISS studio albums hold up to VH, VHII, or Fair Warning. KISS' best studio albums are barely better than Diver Down (which is an underrated album), 1984, and Women and Children First. Some people would say that they aren't even as good as those albums. So I would not find it at all surprising that many fans of both bands would prefer the new Van Halen album to the last KISS album - they would have voted the same way in 1978, 1979, 1980, 1981, etc. I may like A Different Kind Of Truth more than Sonic Boom. I may not. As of yet I haven't heard anything great on ADKOT from a chorus hook & vocal melody standpoint. Hell, everything that I've heard is mediocre from a hook/melody standpoint. They screwed up the old demos by changing the vocal melodies - from the bits I've heard the new versions are inferior to the 1976 demos. The original versions were WAY hookier and catchier, and had more energy, too. I'm still hoping that the full versions of the songs show something great that the clips are missing. Still, I like what I've heard from the new VH. It's definitely going to be a good album. How good it is, and whether it crosses the line from good album to VH classic are the questions remaining to be answered. It's funny some of these same people saying how great the new VH album is (and I'm not saying it isn't) were blasting KISS for even the thought of re-hashing an old demo. Now they seem to love the thought of old demos with Van Halen. That being said, I can't wait for the new VH disc. I am looking very forward to it.
|
|
|
Post by flexlufful on Jan 29, 2012 11:40:25 GMT -5
Who was against rehashing old demos?
|
|
|
Post by Justlee on Jan 29, 2012 12:20:09 GMT -5
Who was against rehashing old demos? Maybe it was back at the faq......don't know which forum I am on sometimes...
|
|
|
Post by flexlufful on Jan 29, 2012 12:59:11 GMT -5
It's funny some of these same people saying how great the new VH album is (and I'm not saying it isn't) were blasting KISS for even the thought of re-hashing an old demo. Now they seem to love the thought of old demos with Van Halen. So many were against KISS rehashing old demos at the faq? So much, enough for you to bring it up regarding the people who like the new VH? I can't really recall anyone against rehashing old demos when I really think about it... In fact, it's probably the best for KISS or VH to do that...
|
|
|
Post by Justlee on Jan 29, 2012 13:04:32 GMT -5
It's funny some of these same people saying how great the new VH album is (and I'm not saying it isn't) were blasting KISS for even the thought of re-hashing an old demo. Now they seem to love the thought of old demos with Van Halen. So many were against KISS rehashing old demos at the faq? So much, enough for you to bring it up regarding the people who like the new VH? I can't really recall anyone against rehashing old demos when I really think about it... In fact, it's probably the best for KISS or VH to do that... I have no problem with it, but I remember it being discussed when KISS did it, it was because they couldn't come up with new ideas any longer and whatnot. It was the usual "hate everything KISS does these days" crowd.
|
|
|
Post by B5Erik on Jan 29, 2012 13:33:49 GMT -5
So many were against KISS rehashing old demos at the faq? So much, enough for you to bring it up regarding the people who like the new VH? I can't really recall anyone against rehashing old demos when I really think about it... In fact, it's probably the best for KISS or VH to do that... I have no problem with it, but I remember it being discussed when KISS did it, it was because they couldn't come up with new ideas any longer and whatnot. It was the usual "hate everything KISS does these days" crowd. There were several people who criticized Gene for rehashing old demos and not writing fresh material. It was an opportunity to say that he couldn't be bothered to write all new songs. They were in the minority, but they were very vocal.
|
|
|
Post by Hey Man on Jan 29, 2012 14:03:07 GMT -5
It's funny. The comparisons to Van Halen would find KISS falling short 30 years ago, too. Not many KISS studio albums hold up to VH, VHII, or Fair Warning. KISS' best studio albums are barely better than Diver Down (which is an underrated album), 1984, and Women and Children First. Some people would say that they aren't even as good as those albums. So I would not find it at all surprising that many fans of both bands would prefer the new Van Halen album to the last KISS album - they would have voted the same way in 1978, 1979, 1980, 1981, etc. I may like A Different Kind Of Truth more than Sonic Boom. I may not. As of yet I haven't heard anything great on ADKOT from a chorus hook & vocal melody standpoint. Hell, everything that I've heard is mediocre from a hook/melody standpoint. They screwed up the old demos by changing the vocal melodies - from the bits I've heard the new versions are inferior to the 1976 demos. The original versions were WAY hookier and catchier, and had more energy, too. I'm still hoping that the full versions of the songs show something great that the clips are missing. Still, I like what I've heard from the new VH. It's definitely going to be a good album. How good it is, and whether it crosses the line from good album to VH classic are the questions remaining to be answered. That's my point - VH had Ted Templeman. If KISS just stuck with Kramer or Ezrin or Michael James Jackson or some producer they felt comfortable with, we wouldn't have gotten so much shit from them.
|
|
|
Post by Spirit on Jan 29, 2012 15:48:05 GMT -5
So many were against KISS rehashing old demos at the faq? So much, enough for you to bring it up regarding the people who like the new VH? I can't really recall anyone against rehashing old demos when I really think about it... In fact, it's probably the best for KISS or VH to do that... I have no problem with it, but I remember it being discussed when KISS did it, it was because they couldn't come up with new ideas any longer and whatnot. It was the usual "hate everything KISS does these days" crowd. Who was against that? Paul and Gene haven't written a great song since the 70's. The more demos they dig up the better.
|
|
|
Post by flexlufful on Jan 29, 2012 16:18:09 GMT -5
B5Erik says that they were the "minority" but, "very vocal" about it... He was paying attention.
|
|
|
Post by Justlee on Jan 29, 2012 16:28:47 GMT -5
Oh it was being said for sure. Back around the time some Sonic Boom rumors were flying about song titles and such. Summer of 2009 I think.
|
|
|
Post by flexlufful on Jan 29, 2012 16:40:12 GMT -5
@ Justlee: You said "It's funny some of these same people saying how great the new VH album is (and I'm not saying it isn't) were blasting KISS for even the thought of re-hashing an old demo. Now they seem to love the thought of old demos with Van Halen." ========================
It just seems that if it made you chuckle a bit at the fact that the "SAME" people that were saying it were OK with VH doing it, that you knew who they were... If it made you laugh, then I assume you know who it was... Otherwise, not really funny then, is it? If you don't know who it was that contradicted themselves.
So, really you're just pulling straws on the matter, right?
|
|
|
Post by Justlee on Jan 29, 2012 16:52:15 GMT -5
@ Justlee: You said "It's funny some of these same people saying how great the new VH album is (and I'm not saying it isn't) were blasting KISS for even the thought of re-hashing an old demo. Now they seem to love the thought of old demos with Van Halen." ======================== It just seems that if it made you chuckle a bit at the fact that the "SAME" people that were saying it were OK with VH doing it, that you knew who they were... If it made you laugh, then I assume you know who it was... Otherwise, not really funny then, is it? If you don't know who it was that contradicted themselves. So, really you're just pulling straws on the matter, right? Maybe it was on Metal Sludge or Blabbermouth or some other forum....these aren't the only ones I post at. I wasn't accusing you or Spirit...I mean I know how much you two still love KISS and all......
|
|
|
Post by flexlufful on Jan 29, 2012 16:56:15 GMT -5
For sure you were not accusing me because I never said it... But, what made you laugh then? You must have "known" for it to trigger the laughter..
|
|
|
Post by Hey Man on Jan 29, 2012 17:08:06 GMT -5
For sure you were not accusing me because I never said it... But, what made you laugh then? You must have "known" for it to trigger the laughter.. Nope, just KISS fans making excuses again.
|
|
|
Post by Justlee on Jan 29, 2012 17:12:30 GMT -5
For sure you were not accusing me because I never said it... But, what made you laugh then? You must have "known" for it to trigger the laughter.. Nope, just KISS fans making excuses again. Making excuses??? Yea, that fits here....
|
|
|
Post by Hey Man on Jan 29, 2012 17:18:54 GMT -5
Nope, just KISS fans making excuses again. Making excuses??? Yea, that fits here.... No matter how great the VH album is, KISS fans will find excuses to downplay it when it comes to Sonic Boom and Monster. They can't just say - yep VH hit it out of the park and KISS didn't. KISS fans can never just say KISS fucked up or missed the mark and then end their sentence. There has to be some excuse to go along with it.
|
|
|
Post by Justlee on Jan 29, 2012 17:23:23 GMT -5
Making excuses??? Yea, that fits here.... No matter how great the VH album is, KISS fans will find excuses to downplay it when it comes to Sonic Boom and Monster. They can't just say - yep VH hit it out of the park and KISS didn't. KISS fans can never just say KISS fucked up or missed the mark and then end their sentence. There has to be some excuse to go along with it. Oh, ok, so you weren't talking about me then.
|
|
|
Post by Hey Man on Jan 29, 2012 17:25:58 GMT -5
No matter how great the VH album is, KISS fans will find excuses to downplay it when it comes to Sonic Boom and Monster. They can't just say - yep VH hit it out of the park and KISS didn't. KISS fans can never just say KISS fucked up or missed the mark and then end their sentence. There has to be some excuse to go along with it. Oh, ok, so you weren't talking about me then. No. You are better than most KISS fans.
|
|
|
Post by Justlee on Jan 29, 2012 17:34:12 GMT -5
Oh, ok, so you weren't talking about me then. No. You are better than most KISS fans. Well I love KISS for sure. Not as much as I did as a kid of course. But I love Van Halen too. I wish for the success of both. About my comment earlier in the thread about rehashed demos.....I will recant my statement just for Nex. I should've worded it that I remember when Sonic Boom stuff was leaking some were saying they were using old demos because they couldn't write anything new. Now Van Halen are doing the same thing.......there you go Nex, I am man enough to alter my statement. Don't want to be accused of wishing for Van Halen to fail or any dumb shit like that.
|
|
|
Post by Justin on Jan 29, 2012 20:32:29 GMT -5
It's funny. The comparisons to Van Halen would find KISS falling short 30 years ago, too. Not many KISS studio albums hold up to VH, VHII, or Fair Warning. KISS' best studio albums are barely better than Diver Down (which is an underrated album), 1984, and Women and Children First. Some people would say that they aren't even as good as those albums. So I would not find it at all surprising that many fans of both bands would prefer the new Van Halen album to the last KISS album - they would have voted the same way in 1978, 1979, 1980, 1981, etc. I may like A Different Kind Of Truth more than Sonic Boom. I may not. As of yet I haven't heard anything great on ADKOT from a chorus hook & vocal melody standpoint. Hell, everything that I've heard is mediocre from a hook/melody standpoint. They screwed up the old demos by changing the vocal melodies - from the bits I've heard the new versions are inferior to the 1976 demos. The original versions were WAY hookier and catchier, and had more energy, too. I'm still hoping that the full versions of the songs show something great that the clips are missing. Still, I like what I've heard from the new VH. It's definitely going to be a good album. How good it is, and whether it crosses the line from good album to VH classic are the questions remaining to be answered. 12 studio albums since ' 78 outstanding. KISS has done how many in the same time frame KISS did that many and probably more in a third of time it took Van Halen. Look at all the great songs across KISS first 3 studio albums. Van Halen have not got that many good song over 30 years let alone over 3 album's released in a short time frame and you can take the next 3 studio album's after that and even the next three after that by KISS. By the time Van Halen catch up to KISS, well they won't. My way of looking at it many of KISS 70's album's you could combine effectively to smash any Van Halen album. Given the recording out put of the two bands shouldn't we expect Van Halen has more in the tank to offer at this time ? Comparing Van Halen to KISS's out put is just not a fair fight for Van Halen at all even in the slightest.
|
|
|
Post by Justin on Jan 29, 2012 20:44:14 GMT -5
Just to clarify i really like Van Halen and " Runnin with the devil " is amongst my fav all time rock songs.
My opinion is though Van Halen should be doing a better studio album only because of the career out put to date being vastly different and Van Halen should have more fuel in the tank.
If the Van Halen album sucked more it's much more of a worry for Van Halen than KISS as KISS by far as more runs on the board to fall back on.
|
|
|
Post by Justin on Jan 29, 2012 21:00:02 GMT -5
12 studio albums since ' 78 outstanding. KISS has done how many in the same time frame KISS did that many and probably more in a third of time it took Van Halen. Look at all the great songs across KISS first 3 studio albums. Van Halen have not got that many good song over 30 years let alone over 3 album's released in a short time frame and you can take the next 3 studio album's after that and even the next three after that by KISS. By the time Van Halen catch up to KISS, well they won't. My way of looking at it many of KISS 70's album's you could combine effectively to smash any Van Halen album. Given the recording out put of the two bands shouldn't we expect Van Halen has more in the tank to offer at this time ? Comparing Van Halen to KISS's out put is just not a fair fight for Van Halen at all even in the slightest. By that reckoning, Boston's new album should slaughter Van Halen's by miles because 'they have more in the tank'. Boston's missing a key component so not a relevant example in my book.
|
|
|
Post by Justin on Jan 29, 2012 21:18:18 GMT -5
Boston's missing a key component so not a relevant example in my book. Anohter one of your stupid rules. You are missing a key component yet you still think you're relevant. The VOICE of the band and an original icon member of the band is missing... silly me and such a silly rule that nobody else would agree with and hold themselves. C'mon man ! Pick another example. Boston been such a long time between drinks i also feels this works against them and thus against the rule. Apparently KISS hasn't been doing anything since 70's though so what do i know. My original member is still intact.
|
|
|
Post by Justin on Jan 29, 2012 22:00:53 GMT -5
Boston's missing a key component so not a relevant example in my book. Def Leppard? Men Without Hats? Men At Work? Next you'll be saying The Beatles recording with just Paul McCartney and Ringo Starr
|
|
|
Post by Justin on Jan 29, 2012 22:38:24 GMT -5
Next you'll be saying The Beatles recording with just Paul McCartney and Ringo Starr I gave three examples. There are many more that prove your theory wrong. Every Van Halen album is not better than KISS or whatever rediculous remark i read back on the other page so my theory holds sway. All i'm saying is that you have to factor in KISS's far superior volume of output to a band like Van Halen. Van Halen are just now reaching i.e. mid ' 80's KISS area as far as career time line goes... it's a relevant point i make i think. I don't expect KISS to make a great album this far along in the game it should probably be expected of Van Halen. KISS have put out 3 times the material then Van Halen although i haven't counted it song for song.
|
|
|
Post by Justin on Jan 29, 2012 22:49:29 GMT -5
Lets take Van Halen's first three years 78 , 79 , 80 take all their songs and compare them to KISS's Out put in the same time period..... I rest my case your honour.
KISS 74, 75 , 76
You'd have to take KISS 77 - 79 to make it even anywhere near an interesting and fair fight.
|
|
|
Post by Justin on Jan 29, 2012 23:03:52 GMT -5
47 KISS songs to Van Halen 26 across the first 3 years.
I can easilly cull those 47 songs into 3 great KISS album's that more than rival the vaunted first 3 of Van Halen... EASILLY !!
I think the KISS album's stand alone regardless against any van halen album but it's fair enough to combine the KISS album's into a two headed beast in those initial year's to compare with Van Halen.
KISS wins hands down.
|
|