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Post by Mr. Blackwell on Dec 29, 2023 17:45:03 GMT -5
Going for a little clickbait tying this in with Kiss, but - I totally agree with redinthesky ripping Vinnie over endless announcements of releases that never happen, while never releasing videos of himself playing.
It really isn't complicated.
I did this yesterday, which I'm going to edit into a YouTube Short, since it's brief.
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Post by Hey Man on Dec 29, 2023 19:10:03 GMT -5
Cool! Nice guitar too.
Look I know we don't agree on Vinnie - I think he came around at a time when KISS needing him and he elevated the band, especially as a songwriter for his KISS work. VVI sucks. I do think if Vinnie could have been reigned in and he continued with the band, the rest of the 80's and beyond KISS albums would have been so much better than they are without him.
That said, he obviously has a host of problems and has lead a life that has impacted him negatively. Apparently has he played for people who have paid to see him. I believe Joma saw him at Creaturefest, but I am not sure how much he actually played. Maybe he can chime in here.
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Post by Joma on Dec 29, 2023 19:32:40 GMT -5
He did a 15-20 minute wankfest solo to start, which wasn't all that impressive. Then he played an extended version of I Love It Loud with a drum machine and some randomndude on bass/vocals, then played Black Diamond with Bruce, then they played Deuce with Ace and Bruce...then they played Cold Gin, but Vinnie dropped out for most of it. It was a rather short set...30-40 min.
It was very odd, but he can still play to some level of decent...not exactly impressive, but not as bad as someone like Red makes him out to be. Alhough he's lost his ability to shred well, if you think he ever could to begin with. Now he just spazzes with no rhyme, reason, or structure to it. I doubt he could play his VVI solos accurately anymore, but he could probably pull off most of his KISS stuff more or less still.
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Post by Hey Man on Dec 29, 2023 19:43:19 GMT -5
He did a 15-20 minute wankfest solo to start, which wasn't all that impressive. Then he played an extended version of I Love It Loud with a drum machine and some randomndude on bass/vocals, then played Black Diamond with Bruce, then they played Deuce with Ace and Bruce...then they played Cold Gin, but Vinnie dropped out for most of it. It was a rather short set...30-40 min. It was very odd, but he can still play to some level of decent...not exactly impressive, but not as bad as someone like Red makes him out to be. Alhough he's lost his ability to shred well, if you think he ever could to begin with. Now he just spazzes with no rhyme, reason, or structure to it. I doubt he could play his VVI solos accurately anymore, but he could probably pull off most of his KISS stuff more or less still. Did people seem to be disappointed with what they got or were people just happy to see Vinnie do anything after all this time?
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Post by Margo Leadbetter on Dec 29, 2023 21:58:36 GMT -5
War Machine not Black Diamond.
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Post by Joma on Dec 29, 2023 23:20:05 GMT -5
Thanks, Margo. I remember Bruce and Vinnie playing a harmony part with each other...I thought it was the altered ending to BD how they did it in the early/mud 80s, but now that I think about it, I think they just did that part after War Machine, iirc.
HM, seemed to me most thought it was weird...probably leaning toward disappointment, but it was definitely a unique experience.
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Post by Mr. Blackwell on Dec 30, 2023 4:44:22 GMT -5
Cool! Nice guitar too. Look I know we don't agree on Vinnie - I think he came around at a time when KISS needing him and he elevated the band, especially as a songwriter for his KISS work. VVI sucks. I do think if Vinnie could have been reigned in and he continued with the band, the rest of the 80's and beyond KISS albums would have been so much better than they are without him. That said, he obviously has a host of problems and has lead a life that has impacted him negatively. Apparently has he played for people who have paid to see him. I believe Joma saw him at Creaturefest, but I am not sure how much he actually played. Maybe he can chime in here. I don't have a problem with Vinnie. But I do not believe he saved Kiss, primarily because Kiss was never saved in the 80's. They had some momentary bright spots, but the entire decade was an uphill battle. Secondly, I don't find his musical contributions to be anything spectacular. Lick It Up is one of the most generic songs in the catalog - barely a riff, boring melody sung in the stratosphere, lyrically empty, no solo. It got what little bump it had from the band taking off the makeup. There is no tangible evidence that his musical contributions had any meaningful effect, especially considering without him Kiss went platinum, as did the three guys from his band; while he languished in obscurity. And even in my shred days, I thought his playing was amateurish. Actual shredders play musical lines with flawless execution. Vinnie by and large played musical gibberish, and sloppily at that. That's why he caked his tone in way too much distortion and effects. But I was only bringing him up to clickbait my own guitar videos, which as red often states, are easy to make. Here's another from yesterday. Tune is nearly a century old; something about this style really connects with me.
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Post by Hey Man on Dec 30, 2023 6:20:30 GMT -5
Cool! Nice guitar too. Look I know we don't agree on Vinnie - I think he came around at a time when KISS needing him and he elevated the band, especially as a songwriter for his KISS work. VVI sucks. I do think if Vinnie could have been reigned in and he continued with the band, the rest of the 80's and beyond KISS albums would have been so much better than they are without him. That said, he obviously has a host of problems and has lead a life that has impacted him negatively. Apparently has he played for people who have paid to see him. I believe Joma saw him at Creaturefest, but I am not sure how much he actually played. Maybe he can chime in here. I don't have a problem with Vinnie. But I do not believe he saved Kiss, primarily because Kiss was never saved in the 80's. They had some momentary bright spots, but the entire decade was an uphill battle. Secondly, I don't find his musical contributions to be anything spectacular. Lick It Up is one of the most generic songs in the catalog - barely a riff, boring melody sung in the stratosphere, lyrically empty, no solo. It got what little bump it had from the band taking off the makeup. There is no tangible evidence that his musical contributions had any meaningful effect, especially considering without him Kiss went platinum, as did the three guys from his band; while he languished in obscurity. And even in my shred days, I thought his playing was amateurish. Actual shredders play musical lines with flawless execution. Vinnie by and large played musical gibberish, and sloppily at that. That's why he caked his tone in way too much distortion and effects. But I was only bringing him up to clickbait my own guitar videos, which as red often states, are easy to make. Here's another from yesterday. Tune is nearly a century old; something about this style really connects with me. The debate over Vinnie saving KISS or not was never based on financial or even success, but quality or quality for KISS anyway when it came to front to back albums after three albums that caused a fan exodus. Creatures and LIU are generally viewed as their best output in the 80's as albums by fans/music site rankings and a decline started once Vinnie was gone and got worse as the years went on with each following album - only to come back when he wrote Unholy for KISS. Those platinum albums you mention are garbage overall and even KISS is embarrassed that they made them. The very reason why KISS wanted to work with Vinnie again for Revenge is because they knew they had been making shitty albums and thought maybe if we get Vinnie back in addition to Ezrin - we can make something more in keeping with Creatures and LIU again. KISS felt they had to go back to the well with two people that elevated the band and Vinnie was one of them as a songwriter. It was a calculated decision as a part of their attempt at a comeback musically/creatively despite Crazy Nights going platinum. Sure LIU is a simple generic song, but we are talking about a band that have a 100 simple generic songs starting from the 70's. It's not like KISS were this sophisticated and creative band - only for Vinnie to bring them down with LIU. A song by the way that Paul and Gene felt worthy to call the new album, the label release as the first single and has remained in the setlist because it is a hit as far as hits go for KISS. It has 58 Million views on YouTube. I mention this because we have discussed YouTube views in the past. I completely understand that you are more sophisticated as a musician yourself and tend to appreciate bands and artists that are also more sophisticated and creative with their songwriting and musicianship, but KISS was never that - they are pretty much the most basic band ever which is why they never got respect, so obviously KISS has been the exception to the rule here for you and LIU is in keeping with that. Cool video. What kind of guitar is that?
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Post by battra on Dec 30, 2023 11:09:04 GMT -5
Taking the make up off saved Kiss.
There's really no other evidence.
Vinnie's songwriting didn't save Creatures of the Night.
The lack of Vinnie's songwriting didn't kill Animalize.
The argument is the wave and energy from COTN breathed new life into LIU, but that doesn't make sense, because no one bought COTN.
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Post by Joma on Dec 30, 2023 11:30:14 GMT -5
Vinnie's involvement in Creatures is pretty overrated. He cowrote the weakest Paul song on the album, the weakest Gene song, and ILIL. I like Vinnie well enough, but Batts is correct. The boost the band got was taking off the makeup. Granted, hardcore fans can appreciate his songwriting, though it might have a little more to do with KISS trying to be NWOBHM for a couple albums than Vinnie's greatness. And while Unholy is highly praised, the other two songs on Revenge Vin was involved with aren't really spoken all that highly of...so it's not like he was a huge part of Revenge.
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Post by Hey Man on Dec 30, 2023 11:32:36 GMT -5
Taking the make up off saved Kiss. There's really no other evidence. Vinnie's songwriting didn't save Creatures of the Night. The lack of Vinnie's songwriting didn't kill Animalize. The argument is the wave and energy from COTN breathed new life into LIU, but that doesn't make sense, because no one bought COTN. Again it wasn't about success, but quality. No one bought Creatures, because there was a fan exodus and Creatures was too little too late. Nothing would have changed that. However KISS did release their 2 best albums in a row outside of the original band with Vinnie doing the heavy lifting on the LIU songwriting. Then creatively a decline started with Animalize and then the bottom fell out from Asylum to HITS. Logic would dictate that Vinnie was the missing ingredient as a reigned in songwriter with KISS. Even people who didn't like Vinnie on guitar, felt that KISS should have kept him as a songwriter and they are right. KISS having a comeback creatively FINALLY YEARS LATER with Vinnie writing Unholy proves that.
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Post by Hey Man on Dec 30, 2023 11:44:53 GMT -5
Vinnie's involvement in Creatures is pretty overrated. He cowrote the weakest Paul song on the album, the weakest Gene song, and ILIL. I like Vinnie well enough, but Batts is correct. The boost the band got was taking off the makeup. Granted, hardcore fans can appreciate his songwriting, though it might have a little more to do with KISS trying to be NWOBHM for a couple albums than Vinnie's greatness. And while Unholy is highly praised, the other two songs on Revenge Vin was involved with aren't really spoken all that highly of...so it's not like he was a huge part of Revenge. Again this is KISS. KISS albums are often plagued with weak songs and Vinnie worked with what KISS had as someone brand new working with the band. Yes, Vinnie wrote I Love It Loud - which has stood the test of time at being a KISS classic. Fine if you don't like the song, but Vinnie absolutely deserves credit there. That is the landmark song off of Creatures. I know you are not a big fan of LIU and even prefer HITS, but you at least know that Creatures and LIU are generally viewed as their best albums outside of the original band and that your view is a controversial among KISS fans.
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Post by Joma on Dec 30, 2023 12:27:44 GMT -5
Vinnie's involvement in Creatures is pretty overrated. He cowrote the weakest Paul song on the album, the weakest Gene song, and ILIL. I like Vinnie well enough, but Batts is correct. The boost the band got was taking off the makeup. Granted, hardcore fans can appreciate his songwriting, though it might have a little more to do with KISS trying to be NWOBHM for a couple albums than Vinnie's greatness. And while Unholy is highly praised, the other two songs on Revenge Vin was involved with aren't really spoken all that highly of...so it's not like he was a huge part of Revenge. Again this is KISS. KISS albums are often plagued with weak songs and Vinnie worked with what KISS had as someone brand new working with the band. Yes, Vinnie wrote I Love It Loud - which has stood the test of time at being a KISS classic. Fine if you don't like the song, but Vinnie absolutely deserves credit there. That is the landmark song off of Creatures. I know you are not a big fan of LIU and even prefer HITS, but you at least know that Creatures and LIU are generally viewed as their best albums outside of the original band and that your view is a controversial among KISS fans. That's not quite accurate...I don't prefer HITS to LIU in general, but it's more a mood thing with the albums after The Elder. On occasion, yes, I prefer HITS to LIU...but not regularly. And while I like ILIL, and especially when I was a newer fan, I think it's the second weakest Gene tune on the album. S&S and RARH are both vastly superior...and War Machine is cooler, too. I don't have a problem with Vinnie, they very well could have been a stronger band with him...I just think his importance is vastly overrated. Not like the VVI albums are better than what followed his departure from KISS. I think KISS was trying to be heavier for those two albums, and that style is more appreciated by many fans than what followed.
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Post by Hey Man on Dec 30, 2023 12:54:34 GMT -5
Again this is KISS. KISS albums are often plagued with weak songs and Vinnie worked with what KISS had as someone brand new working with the band. Yes, Vinnie wrote I Love It Loud - which has stood the test of time at being a KISS classic. Fine if you don't like the song, but Vinnie absolutely deserves credit there. That is the landmark song off of Creatures. I know you are not a big fan of LIU and even prefer HITS, but you at least know that Creatures and LIU are generally viewed as their best albums outside of the original band and that your view is a controversial among KISS fans. That's not quite accurate...I don't prefer HITS to LIU in general, but it's more a mood thing with the albums after The Elder. On occasion, yes, I prefer HITS to LIU...but not regularly. And while I like ILIL, and especially when I was a newer fan, I think it's the second weakest Gene tune on the album. S&S and RARH are both vastly superior...and War Machine is cooler, too. I don't have a problem with Vinnie, they very well could have been a stronger band with him...I just think his importance is vastly overrated. Not like the VVI albums are better than what followed his departure from KISS. I think KISS was trying to be heavier for those two albums, and that style is more appreciated by many fans than what followed. Just let me clarify that I am not some die hard Vinnie fan or like Sphinx. VVI sucks. My view is that Vinnie needed KISS and KISS needed Vinnie creatively. I don't care if the follow up albums sold 10M each. They were mostly crap outside of a couple of songs creatively and that is what matters to me. I do believe they would have been a stronger band and the 80's wouldn't have been so bad for KISS creatively even if Vinnie was just kept on the payroll as a songwriter. I was almost ready to move on from KISS with my story you know of just hating Hide Your Heart when I was all excited to hear the new KISS single and this was the shit they did. Unholy brought me back. So I can only come to the conclusion that like a cooking recipe - Vinnie had actually been a missing ingredient with KISS from 1984 to 1993. Saint And Sinner is one of my fave songs period and I really dig RARH and War Machine too (not actually written by Gene) - I was just saying that you can't really downplay Vinnie when he wrote two landmark songs for KISS - I Love It Loud and LIU that have been concert staples and are legitimate KISS classics.
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Post by Joma on Dec 30, 2023 13:28:10 GMT -5
And I don't dislike Vinnie...I just think he gets far too much credit. And as the 80s progressed, Vinnie or not, I think they're going more wussy as the rock scene changed. And without Vinnie, I think they're still putting out heavy albums those two years...whether they're as good, who knows? But I think the best of Creatures wasn't Vin's material. And the main riff in War Machine Gene did write. He had less to do with RARH where he wrote the lyrics to a verse for the sake of a writing credit. But it's still a great song.
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Post by Hey Man on Dec 30, 2023 13:32:10 GMT -5
And I don't dislike Vinnie...I just think he gets far too much credit. And as the 80s progressed, Vinnie or not, I think they're going more wussy as the rock scene changed. And without Vinnie, I think they're still putting out heavy albums those two years...whether they're as good, who knows? But I think the best of Creatures wasn't Vin's material. And the main riff in War Machine Gene did write. He had less to do with RARH where he wrote the lyrics to a verse for the sake of a writing credit. But it's still a great song. I guess I was partly under the impression that one of the reasons why you went to Creaturefest was a love for the album, Vinnie's involvement and to see him perform with Bruce and Ace there as an added bonus.
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Post by Joma on Dec 30, 2023 13:58:54 GMT -5
And I don't dislike Vinnie...I just think he gets far too much credit. And as the 80s progressed, Vinnie or not, I think they're going more wussy as the rock scene changed. And without Vinnie, I think they're still putting out heavy albums those two years...whether they're as good, who knows? But I think the best of Creatures wasn't Vin's material. And the main riff in War Machine Gene did write. He had less to do with RARH where he wrote the lyrics to a verse for the sake of a writing credit. But it's still a great song. I guess I was partly under the impression that one of the reasons why you went to Creaturefest was a love for the album, Vinnie's involvement and to see him perform with Bruce and Ace there as an added bonus. Not really, considering I figured it was 50/50 at best if Vin would show up. I was happy to see him, but the fact that Ace, Peter, and Bruce were all there is what sold me on going. Vinnie was just a bonus if he actually showed up...which is why I wasn't too bothered by what he delivered. Him showing up and delivering anything exceeded my expectations since I thought there was a good chance he wouldn't show up at all.
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Post by Hey Man on Dec 30, 2023 14:04:36 GMT -5
I guess I was partly under the impression that one of the reasons why you went to Creaturefest was a love for the album, Vinnie's involvement and to see him perform with Bruce and Ace there as an added bonus. Not really, considering I figured it was 50/50 at best if Vin would show up. I was happy to see him, but the fact that Ace, Peter, and Bruce were all there is what sold me on going. Vinnie was just a bonus if he actually showed up...which is why I wasn't too bothered by what he delivered. Him showing up and delivering anything exceeded my expectations since I thought there was a good chance he wouldn't show up at all. I forgot Peter was there too. Fair enough.
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Post by kissoff on Dec 30, 2023 14:34:21 GMT -5
Not really, considering I figured it was 50/50 at best if Vin would show up. I was happy to see him, but the fact that Ace, Peter, and Bruce were all there is what sold me on going. Vinnie was just a bonus if he actually showed up...which is why I wasn't too bothered by what he delivered. Him showing up and delivering anything exceeded my expectations since I thought there was a good chance he wouldn't show up at all. I forgot Peter was there too. Fair enough. No it's not fair enough. Joma has never shared pics from the event. I'm going to write my Congressman just try me.
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Post by Hey Man on Dec 30, 2023 14:52:06 GMT -5
I forgot Peter was there too. Fair enough. No it's not fair enough. Joma has never shared pics from the event. I'm going to write my Congressman just try me. Maybe Joma is really Tommy Thayer and is just doing a great job of pretending - just to monitor what people are saying about him on forums.
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Post by Joma on Dec 30, 2023 14:52:14 GMT -5
I forgot Peter was there too. Fair enough. No it's not fair enough. Joma has never shared pics from the event. I'm going to write my Congressman just try me. I only took a few, and they didn't turn out that good...my previous phone didn't take very good low level light pics. Other than that, I got a pic of me with the dudes from Trixter at the hotel bar... I'm not much of a picture taker...
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Post by Joma on Dec 30, 2023 14:54:05 GMT -5
No it's not fair enough. Joma has never shared pics from the event. I'm going to write my Congressman just try me. Maybe Joma is really Tommy Thayer and is just doing a great job of pretending - just to monitor what people are saying about him on forums. I think that's StillAlive. I was sad that rumor didn't get more traction...if Sphinxie was Vin then SA was Thayer!
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Post by kissoff on Dec 30, 2023 14:58:30 GMT -5
No it's not fair enough. Joma has never shared pics from the event. I'm going to write my Congressman just try me. I only took a few, and they didn't turn out that good...my previous phone didn't take very good low level light pics. Other than that, I got a pic of me with the dudes from Trixter at the hotel bar... I'm not much of a picture taker... You're an Awesome picture taker and don't you let anyone tell you different.
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Post by kissoff on Dec 30, 2023 15:01:40 GMT -5
No it's not fair enough. Joma has never shared pics from the event. I'm going to write my Congressman just try me. Maybe Joma is really Tommy Thayer and is just doing a great job of pretending - just to monitor what people are saying about him on forums. Wouldn't surprise me at all anyone who likes MDD is slippery.
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Post by Joma on Dec 30, 2023 15:01:49 GMT -5
I only took a few, and they didn't turn out that good...my previous phone didn't take very good low level light pics. Other than that, I got a pic of me with the dudes from Trixter at the hotel bar... I'm not much of a picture taker... You're an Awesome picture taker and don't you let anyone tell you different. My crappy phone and me paying more attention to the show than focusing on taking a great photo suggest otherwise...
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Post by Hey Man on Dec 30, 2023 15:03:47 GMT -5
Maybe Joma is really Tommy Thayer and is just doing a great job of pretending - just to monitor what people are saying about him on forums. I think that's StillAlive. I was sad that rumor didn't get more traction...if Sphinxie was Vin then SA was Thayer! That would be funny. Sure, I am not cool like Ace - but dammit I am professional and reliable. What's more rock and roll than that? Obviously I understand KISS fans still supporting the band with lineup changes, but I will never understand someone who above and beyond supports Tommy like they wish he was in KISS from the start. Tommy might possibly be the most boring guitarist alive in a major band and that's saying something when KISS also had Bruce Kulick who was pretty boring initially as well until Revenge/Carnival/Unplugged/Union.
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Post by kissoff on Dec 30, 2023 15:21:35 GMT -5
You're an Awesome picture taker and don't you let anyone tell you different. My crappy phone and me paying more attention to the show than focusing on taking a great photo suggest otherwise... View AttachmentI see Playboy photographer in your future.
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Post by Mr. Blackwell on Dec 30, 2023 15:40:14 GMT -5
I don't have a problem with Vinnie. But I do not believe he saved Kiss, primarily because Kiss was never saved in the 80's. They had some momentary bright spots, but the entire decade was an uphill battle. Secondly, I don't find his musical contributions to be anything spectacular. Lick It Up is one of the most generic songs in the catalog - barely a riff, boring melody sung in the stratosphere, lyrically empty, no solo. It got what little bump it had from the band taking off the makeup. There is no tangible evidence that his musical contributions had any meaningful effect, especially considering without him Kiss went platinum, as did the three guys from his band; while he languished in obscurity. And even in my shred days, I thought his playing was amateurish. Actual shredders play musical lines with flawless execution. Vinnie by and large played musical gibberish, and sloppily at that. That's why he caked his tone in way too much distortion and effects. But I was only bringing him up to clickbait my own guitar videos, which as red often states, are easy to make. Here's another from yesterday. Tune is nearly a century old; something about this style really connects with me. The debate over Vinnie saving KISS or not was never based on financial or even success, but quality or quality for KISS anyway when it came to front to back albums after three albums that caused a fan exodus. Creatures and LIU are generally viewed as their best output in the 80's as albums by fans/music site rankings and a decline started once Vinnie was gone and got worse as the years went on with each following album - only to come back when he wrote Unholy for KISS. Those platinum albums you mention are garbage overall and even KISS is embarrassed that they made them. The very reason why KISS wanted to work with Vinnie again for Revenge is because they knew they had been making shitty albums and thought maybe if we get Vinnie back in addition to Ezrin - we can make something more in keeping with Creatures and LIU again. KISS felt they had to go back to the well with two people that elevated the band and Vinnie was one of them as a songwriter. It was a calculated decision as a part of their attempt at a comeback musically/creatively despite Crazy Nights going platinum. Sure LIU is a simple generic song, but we are talking about a band that have a 100 simple generic songs starting from the 70's. It's not like KISS were this sophisticated and creative band - only for Vinnie to bring them down with LIU. A song by the way that Paul and Gene felt worthy to call the new album, the label release as the first single and has remained in the setlist because it is a hit as far as hits go for KISS. It has 58 Million views on YouTube. I mention this because we have discussed YouTube views in the past. I completely understand that you are more sophisticated as a musician yourself and tend to appreciate bands and artists that are also more sophisticated and creative with their songwriting and musicianship, but KISS was never that - they are pretty much the most basic band ever which is why they never got respect, so obviously KISS has been the exception to the rule here for you and LIU is in keeping with that. Cool video. What kind of guitar is that? I agree with Joma that Vinnie's contributions are overrated. And battra summed up this debate perfectly. Maybe not you, but Vinnie/Sphinx constantly used a imaginary sales figures to support his claim Vinnie saved Kiss. I saw the 80's tours as well as those of competing bands. Kiss was never saved. And I find no evidence that Vinnie improved the band musically. For starters, we have no idea what he actually contributed; and secondly, I don't hear a huge increase in quality. I'd take Thrills In the Night over Gimme More, by a long shot. Then there's the issue that his band ditched him, then Mark Slaughter and Dana Strum instantly struck platinum without him, as did Bob Rock in Nelson. So who was holding who back? It's funny that Kiss' biggest influence is they have lots of followers who believe saying something inaccurate repeatedly will make it true - Gooch, Radley, Bob Kulick, Vinnie, etc. I was enthralled with the shred movement in the 80's and Vinnie wasn't on anyone's radar. His Star Licks video is pure Spinal Tap. Thanks for checking out the videos! Believe it or not, the guitar is an Ibanez. It's an Artcore, their cheapest hollow body. I actually play it through the clean channel of my Marshall amp.
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Post by Hey Man on Dec 30, 2023 16:45:08 GMT -5
Fair enough on Sphinx, but he was crazy. For me - it was more of a saved KISS creatively, but certainly the whole notion of saved or not saved is kind of ridiculous. However he just happened to be on the best albums outside of the original band so that can't really be ignored when a decline set in afterwards and they went back to that well for an attempted comeback.
That is the evidence. They didn't go back to Vinnie for shits and giggles, but an attempt to up their game because even they were aware that Creatures and LIU are their only respectable albums in the 80's and he did a lot of the heavy lifting as a songwriter especially on the LIU album.
No one is denying that Vinnie had big problems and burned bridges, but that is kind of irrelevant. Plenty of people in entertainment are self destructive and caused all their own problems. Eddie and Alex caused all the problems in VH and fucked up their own band ultimately. And no I am not comparing to Vinnie to Eddie in any remote capacity, but just pointing out what egos and demons can do to someone.
At the end of the day, Vinnie was great for KISS. The perfect guy at the time to replace Ace - especially when he was a good songwriter for the band and they wanted to go heavier. He is great on the albums, but I concede that live he needed to be reigned in. Ultimately if Vinnie was just a nice guy and could work well with Paul and Gene - I would have MUCH rather Vinnie be in KISS all this time over Bruce, Mark and Tommy who all really contributed nothing to KISS for the most part that any fill in could have also done.
I would have never guessed that was an Ibanez. Wow. Looks like some classic guitar that you got all fixed up or something. When I think of Ibanez - it is just Vai and Satch. But probably a ton of guitarists use Ibanez, but Vai/Satch are truly passionate about the brand and promote them.
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Post by Mr. Blackwell on Dec 30, 2023 19:24:20 GMT -5
I just find it hard to quantify exactly what Vinnie brought to Kiss, as there are other factors at play. Kiss was in desperate situations both times with Vinnie, in which there was nowhere to go but up.
After Unmasked and The Elder, a heavier record was going to happen with or without Vinnie. Same with Revenge - after Forever, Crazy Nights, Let's Put the X in Sex, Rock Hard, an Ezrin-produced Gene single was going to sound like Mozart to Kiss fans; and it was going to happen with or without Vinnie.
Robert Horry won 7 NBA championships, but was a reserve every time. Valuable player, but no one hails him as a basketball god.
And that's what rubs people the wrong way with Vinnie. Creatures was my first concert, and Vinnie was a part of that. I would gladly honor him for that, but all the revisionist history and demigod horse---- is completely off-putting.
Ibanez makes great guitars in general. But the flashy locking tremolos, etc. was anathema to the alternative/grunge crowd. So the company found its niche with metal and shredders.
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